couple of Morel roller lifter questions

[Belgian1979]

As I will have to get my heads redone with new guides and a valve job, it's also time to exchange the lifters. Not that they have that many miles on them, but for safety reasons. This will be an autumn/winter job.

Currently running the Morel Pro series linked needle bearing lifters for SBC. I run them with a rev kit.
Thinking investing the extra money for the bushed lifters, but have some questions :
- are the Morel bushed lifters the same height overall ? If not, in what respect are they diffent ?
- can a bushed lifter be used with a rev kit ?

Thanks

[user-17438]

My opinion is just check them. If they are fine run them. There is no need to bush them, i have dozens of solid roller .8xx plus lift on the streets for years. Just check them periodically and you will be fine.. Dont let a salesman sell you something you dont need.

[Frankshaft]

Plus, I don't care what anyone says, or how old school and unnecessary it is, the rev kit is a good idea and I use them anytime I can. It dramatically increases lifter life.

[ProPower engines]

Bushed lifters while the new thing on the market they are by far the best idea for roller cam use since most guys while they may check valve lash on a regular basis will never pull and inspect lifters unless it is a complete tear down.

Bush lifters give the engine owner a tell tal3e sign of needed lifter or cam maintenance is needed immediately when lash gets out of hand on 1 or more valves and with a conventional roller bearing lifter that 99 times out of 100 means rollers in the oil pump or worse a wiped out crank.
I have been using them in both hyd. and solid applications since they came out. Sure they cost more cause they can only be had from Isky as they have the patent on them but for any customers engine that I do thats what they get regardless.
seen too many engines needlessly destroyed from regular roller lifters.

Rev kits are the best thing for any engine that is a max effort for reliability and the needless requirement to way over spring a valve to control valve train.
I have a mopar customer that has just done a tear down on some and found 1/2 the keep groove worn away caused by too much valve spring. It to is getting a rev kit soon

[Belgian1979]

Have to think about a couple of things, but I'm all for reusing a rev kit. Just not sure, if I would go the bused lifter route, if they can withstand the rev kit's extra pressure directly on the lifter body.

As for the valve keepers. I just went through a valve seal replacement job (to see if that would help my problem with oil consumption which turned out to be a guide issue) and I've just 2 different types, one is the yellow eletrolyzed type standard height, which seem to do fine. The other was a -.050 (brown/black types) to help accomodate accurate valve pressure with a lash cap recess. While doing replacement the -.050 units sometimes just sheared in half. Need to consider a replacement. Which are the strongest ones ? Not that I've had issues before, but for extra insurance.
(closed pressure is 240 lbs, open is 575 lbs).

As for the replacment of the guides : I tend to do this in while the motor is still in the car. Currently use Felpro 1003 head gasket. What do I need to do as for cleaning the block pistons and how do I proceed ?
Also, this is a 1979 Corvette. Space is rather constrained. Can the heads be removed while the engine is in the car ?

It currently has the guides that came with the heads (dart pro 1 alu). What replacements are best. Need to run a guide with a .530 top as this will accomodate my springs.

Thanks

[Geoff2]

The problem with needle rollers is the hammering they take. With a solid roller cam, they [ the needles ] get hammered on both the opening & closing side of the lobe. With a hyd roller cam, they get hammered on the closing side at low speeds due to lifter bleed down. Roller & ball brgs were never designed for this type of action. Which is why the bushed set up is a good idea.

[Frankshaft]

The problem with needle rollers is the hammering they take. With a solid roller cam, they [ the needles ] get hammered on both the opening & closing side of the lobe. With a hyd roller cam, they get hammered on the closing side at low speeds due to lifter bleed down. Roller & ball brgs were never designed for this type of action. Which is why the bushed set up is a good idea.

That's why a rev kit is a good idea, it eliminates that, the rev kit keeps it on the cam the whole time. Especially for a street car with a solid roller. I personally prefer isky ezx bushed roller liffters. I personally think they are the best. Morells have been not so good. The new style, the mombo or whatever its called, is yet to be determined. For the price, I will just stick with the isky's. Many sets in service with zero issues, some with 1 inch lift and big spring pressures. Many years, no issues.
'
You should be able to remove heads in the car, no issues. DO NOT use a wiz wheel on the deck of the block, razor blades to clean block deck. Shop vacc debris in bores, and make sure to clean the debris that fall down in between piston and bores above rings. I spray that area lightly with break clean, and use an air gun to blow it out, then light oil. As far as guides, how old are the heads? The Dart heads in recent years use the 7/16 to .570 step with a .530 seal. I personally think they don't last as long, as the .502 of guides. Not sure the deal there.

[In-Tech]

Sounds like you guys have good results with Isky bushed AND a rev kit? I like a rev kit and I like the idea of bushed lifters but was always concerned about pairing the two. Please forgive my ignorance as I rarely build engines anymore, mostly tuning for the other shops.
Thanks for the quidance.

[Belgian1979]

The problem with needle rollers is the hammering they take. With a solid roller cam, they [ the needles ] get hammered on both the opening & closing side of the lobe. With a hyd roller cam, they get hammered on the closing side at low speeds due to lifter bleed down. Roller & ball brgs were never designed for this type of action. Which is why the bushed set up is a good idea.

That's why a rev kit is a good idea, it eliminates that, the rev kit keeps it on the cam the whole time. Especially for a street car with a solid roller. I personally prefer isky ezx bushed roller liffters. I personally think they are the best. Morells have been not so good. The new style, the mombo or whatever its called, is yet to be determined. For the price, I will just stick with the isky's. Many sets in service with zero issues, some with 1 inch lift and big spring pressures. Many years, no issues.
'
You should be able to remove heads in the car, no issues. DO NOT use a wiz wheel on the deck of the block, razor blades to clean block deck. Shop vacc debris in bores, and make sure to clean the debris that fall down in between piston and bores above rings. I spray that area lightly with break clean, and use an air gun to blow it out, then light oil. As far as guides, how old are the heads? The Dart heads in recent years use the 7/16 to .570 step with a .530 seal. I personally think they don't last as long, as the .502 of guides. Not sure the deal there.

I'm not sure on the guides but since I do not have many miles on them I think the quality sucks. I have .3415 valves and the top of the guide is .530. I did the wiggle test while I was exchanging seals and especially the exhausts have too much movement imo. Uses oil on decel

[Belgian1979]

Any more info on this ?

[needforspeed66gt]

Plus, I don't care what anyone says, or how old school and unnecessary it is, the rev kit is a good idea and I use them anytime I can. It dramatically increases lifter life.

While I completely and totally agree with you on rev kits, have ran them for many years on even street solid roller cars and not a single lifter failure, I have found the Isky lifters in recent years to be severely lacking in quality and finally quit using them entirely last year when I got a box with lifters varying in size from a low to a high of .0015" - thats just fucking unacceptable.

[Abbottracingheads]

Don't waste your money on bushed lifters. Your cam will thank you for it.

[bigjoe1]

I feel the same way-- DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON THE BUSHED LIFTERS



JOE SHERMAN RACING

[Belgian1979]

Ok, seems that most of the reputable engine builders here agree that there is no sense in going to a bushed lifter.
Will check them out when the are disassembled. I assume The roller needs to have no play and no griding when rolling. Anymore checks ?

What with regards to the valve guides. Is there anything more to materials/quality/brands ? Seems that the ones in my heads were not that good.

Heads were bought in the 2000-2005 era. I read some comments over the internet that dart used some special sizes there, but not sure about that.

[bigjoe1]

Many years ago, Isky him self , told me the rev kit will make the roller lifters last much longer when run on the street



JOE SHERMAN RACING