Personal 380 SBC Dyno

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Carnut1
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Re: Personal 380 SBC Dyno

Post by Carnut1 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:22 pm

David Vizard wrote:
Frankshaft wrote:For the record, I like you Charlie. I am not trying to be a dick. I just don't believe port energy is an important thing to measure. Carl Foltz, pretty sure he doesn't use it either. He had heads on what 10 of the 16 car pro stock field last weekend? Like I said, I am 99.9% sure that Chad didn't use port energy as a consideration when he did that port, or any port on any head he offers. Neither does Darin Morgan, Slick Rick, Larry Meaux, Sonny Leanord, etc. Have they maybe calculated it once or twice on something they have done after seeing it? Maybe. Here is their response. "oh, that's neat". Haven't done it since. I understand the concept, I just think its filler for a program that isn't as good as 3 or 4 that already exist.

As far as Chads roadster, ok, he has 1 pass on it, can't judge it from that, I apologize. But, 2000lbs, which I am 99% sure it weights, + or - 100 lbs, with that power, should 60ft 1.15. It went 1.34, that was with wide open throttle. It should go mid 8's or faster. We will see.
I am not quite sure as to how many of the guys you mention the concept of port energy and energy density has filtered down to yet so it is hardly surprising they are possibly not using it.
DV
David, I am not sure you have read this whole thread or not but if you get a chance page 3 and 4 have some graphs of Chad's 205cc heads vs. My Dart 247cc heads. I would be very interested in what your comments would be. You can post your comments or we can disscuss next call. Thanks, Charlie
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Re: Personal 380 SBC Dyno

Post by David Vizard » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:24 pm

Frankshaft wrote:There still is no such thing as port energy. Its a made up dynamic. I am about 99.9% sure, port energy was NOT one of the criteria Chad used to develop that port. I am done discussing it. There is crickets because I don't really care anymore. If you want to waste your time Charlie, have fun, I have better things to do. And, I don't know, but the car seems kinda slow. Even considering the stop, using Larry's calculations. 2000 lbs, 677hp, should mph MUCH faster, which shows the real hp. Does it even weigh 2000lbs?

Sorry Frankshaft it's not. It is exactly like muzzle energy!
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Re: Personal 380 SBC Dyno

Post by cspeier » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:25 pm

Erland Cox wrote:A 400 block is a very different thing from a 4" bore block.
I see no problems with 4" or smaller blocks N/A without power adders but the 400 block is fragile.
Do you use cap plugs in the decks?

Erland
Yes, I used plug in the deck..

This block was in the car. I used the block and pan. Everything else was new.

Image

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Re: Personal 380 SBC Dyno

Post by David Vizard » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:32 pm

Erland Cox wrote:Port energy is only a further calculation of intake velocity.
Intake velocity works just as good and I believe in KISS.
To calculate port energy is only complicating matters and to what practical use?

Erland
Erland, Erland, Erland,

You are forgetting that you with all your experience you can make a good judgement of the combined effect of flow and velocity. This skill possible took you years to aquire. With a look at the port energy even a beginner is accurately informed. As for being simple the program does it all for you.
If you want one let me know. Consider it payback for the seminar help you have given me.

DV
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Re: Personal 380 SBC Dyno

Post by David Vizard » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:35 pm

NewbVetteGuy wrote:292 CFM @ 0.600" lift and 680 HP = 2.33 HP / CFM. Is this a normal kind of CFM to HP ratio? Is this just what happens when you have really high average velocities and a great combo?

A 205cc head and less than 300 CFM @ the cam's max lift and 680 HP is just an odd combo of statistics to see together.

Adam
Yes if the port energy density is high.
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Re: Personal 380 SBC Dyno

Post by maxracesoftware » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:37 pm

cspeier wrote:
Erland Cox wrote:A 400 block is a very different thing from a 4" bore block.
I see no problems with 4" or smaller blocks N/A without power adders but the 400 block is fragile.
Do you use cap plugs in the decks?

Erland
Yes, I used plug in the deck..

This block was in the car. I used the block and pan. Everything else was new.

Image
i did the very same thing to all my Blocks i machined/built

Chad, i also plugged the 400 Block steam holes with Pioneer Tapered cast-iron plugs

and i discovered like David Vizard did , that using the Manley Headbolts with built-in washers
had less clamping force on the Headgaskets than even the OEM Chevy Headbolts
... so like DV , those type Manleys were the worst , then OEM, then Mr Gasket, then ARP were the best in Rank Order :)

What was the HP/CID on those early engines...if you don't mind my asking?
my 355cid was 720 HP with a best Pull at 723 HP at 9000 RPM .. so it was 2.03662 HP/CID... this was just more or less an ET Bracket engine
and i'm very sure Reher-Morrison, Jenkins, Nickens were very much higher
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Re: Personal 380 SBC Dyno

Post by statsystems » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:40 pm

maxracesoftware wrote:
cspeier wrote:
Erland Cox wrote:A 400 block is a very different thing from a 4" bore block.
I see no problems with 4" or smaller blocks N/A without power adders but the 400 block is fragile.
Do you use cap plugs in the decks?

Erland
Yes, I used plug in the deck..

This block was in the car. I used the block and pan. Everything else was new.

Image
i did the very same thing to all my Blocks i machined/built

Chad, i also plugged the 400 Block steam holes with Pioneer Tapered cast-iron plugs

and i discovered like David Vizard did , that using the Manley Headbolts with built-in washers
had less clamping force on the Headgaskets than even the OEM Chevy Headbolts
... so like DV , those type Manleys were the worst , then OEM, then Mr Gasket, then ARP were the best in Rank Order :)

What was the HP/CID on those early engines...if you don't mind my asking?
my 355cid was 720 HP with a best Pull at 723 HP at 9000 RPM .. so it was 2.03662 HP/CID... this was just more or less an ET Bracket engine
and i'm very sure Reher-Morrison, Jenkins, Nickens were very much higher

Dam, that's higher than I expected. That impressive.

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Re: Personal 380 SBC Dyno

Post by maxracesoftware » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:52 pm

Dam, that's higher than I expected. That impressive.
what's an Internet Calculator come up with for
7.560 ET at 181.459 never less than 179 MPH
...the 179 to 181.459 best MPH should give a true HP reading as my Dyno is conservative
1420 Lbs Ed Weddle rear engine Dragster

Chad should know Kerwin Smarek ( last name spelling ??? been too long ago )
Kerwin use to work for Alan Patterson
then Kerwin went out on his own... i Ported the C/ED Heads/ Manifold for Kerwins Customer
the 305cid on Patterson's Dyno made 720 HP at 9000 RPM just like my 355 ET Bracket Engine
but i ran 7.560 ET at 181.459 MPH ... and they set the NHRA C/ED Record at 7.56 or 7.57 can't exactly remember which, but only at 176-177 MPH

was Porting a lot of C/ED Heads back then and Records were changing often within weeks months
Steve Benoit C/ED.. then Francis and Scotty Hebert C/ED set Record just weeks after Kerwin C/ED

PS : Chad , i also tapered plugged the Cyl#2 water pump deck hole ... and same with other end of Block small deck holes
Last edited by maxracesoftware on Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Personal 380 SBC Dyno

Post by Erland Cox » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:52 pm

David Vizard wrote:
Erland Cox wrote:Port energy is only a further calculation of intake velocity.
Intake velocity works just as good and I believe in KISS.
To calculate port energy is only complicating matters and to what practical use?

Erland
Erland, Erland, Erland,

You are forgetting that you with all your experience you can make a good judgement of the combined effect of flow and velocity. This skill possible took you years to aquire. With a look at the port energy even a beginner is accurately informed. As for being simple the program does it all for you.
If you want one let me know. Consider it payback for the seminar help you have given me.

DV
Yes I would like to try your program.
But going from velocity to port energy does require that the density of the flowing air is calculated first doesn´t it?
Seems like a lot of calculations to get what for instance 300 fps tells you.
But I am ready to try it out and see what it can tell me.

Erland

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Re: Personal 380 SBC Dyno

Post by David Vizard » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:57 pm

Erland Cox wrote:
David Vizard wrote:
Erland Cox wrote:Port energy is only a further calculation of intake velocity.
Intake velocity works just as good and I believe in KISS.
To calculate port energy is only complicating matters and to what practical use?

Erland
Erland, Erland, Erland,

You are forgetting that you with all your experience you can make a good judgement of the combined effect of flow and velocity. This skill possible took you years to aquire. With a look at the port energy even a beginner is accurately informed. As for being simple the program does it all for you.
If you want one let me know. Consider it payback for the seminar help you have given me.

DV
Yes I would like to try your program.
But going from velocity to port energy does require that the density of the flowing air is calculated first doesn´t it?
Seems like a lot of calculations to get what for instance 300 fps tells you.
But I am ready to try it out and see what it can tell me.

Erland
You got it- PM Stan Weiss with your email address and he will send you a copy. See the PM i am just about to send.
DV
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Re: Personal 380 SBC Dyno

Post by cspeier » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:58 pm

maxracesoftware wrote:
Dam, that's higher than I expected. That impressive.
what's an Internet Calculator come up with for
7.560 ET at 181.459 never less than 179 MPH
...the 179 to 181.459 best MPH should give a true HP reading as my Dyno is conservative
1420 Lbs Ed Weddle rear engine Dragster

Chad should know Kerwin Smarek ( last name spelling ??? been too long ago )
Kerwin use to work for Alan Patterson
then Kerwin went out on his own... i Ported the C/ED Heads/ Manifold for Kerwins Customer
the 305cid on Patterson's Dyno made 720 HP at 9000 RPM just like my 355 ET Bracket Engine
but i ran 7.560 ET at 181.459 MPH ... and they set the NHRA C/ED Record at 7.56 or 7.57 can't exactly remember which, but only at 176-177 MPH

was Porting a lot of C/ED Heads back then and Records were changing often within weeks months
Steve Benoit C/ED.. then Francis and Scotty Hebert C/ED set Record just weeks after Kerwin C/ED

PS : Chad , i also tapered plugged the Cyl#2 water pump deck hole ... and same with other end of Block small deck holes
I remember that C/ED well, they still have it! Erb Brothers from Bazine Kansas. I saw it for the first time in the staging lanes at Topeka. Had a conventional manifold on it with MEAUX ground in it. I was like really? a cast manifold??? First hit it set the record. I like all was in shock.

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Re: Personal 380 SBC Dyno

Post by maxracesoftware » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:08 pm

I remember that C/ED well, they still have it! Erb Brothers from Bazine Kansas. I saw it for the first time in the staging lanes at Topeka. Had a conventional manifold on it with MEAUX ground in it. I was like really? a cast manifold??? First hit it set the record. I like all was in shock.
Chad ... that was the good ole Days :)

my best weekend was when Steve Benoit switched over to B/ED
i built him a 338cid ... no Dyno work or tuning ... just experience
at State Capitol Drags Cajun Nats one year
all the best B/EDs were at the same Track in the same Louisiana bad air :)

there was Bill Maropulos, Danny Byrd, Richie Rosen /Joe Martino, hi dollar Lori Johns, Clint Neff, etc
Benoit was the quickest !
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Re: Personal 380 SBC Dyno

Post by af2 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:12 pm

NewbVetteGuy wrote:292 CFM @ 0.600" lift and 680 HP = 2.33 HP / CFM. Is this a normal kind of CFM to HP ratio? Is this just what happens when you have really high average velocities and a great combo?

A 205cc head and less than 300 CFM @ the cam's max lift and 680 HP is just an odd combo of statistics to see together.

Adam
That # is never set in stone as some people really see it as gospel. Look at earlier heads and the HP they made with way small ports.
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Re: Personal 380 SBC Dyno

Post by vortecpro » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:51 pm

cspeier wrote:
Erland Cox wrote:A 400 block is a very different thing from a 4" bore block.
I see no problems with 4" or smaller blocks N/A without power adders but the 400 block is fragile.
Do you use cap plugs in the decks?

Erland
Yes, I used plug in the deck..

This block was in the car. I used the block and pan. Everything else was new.

Image
Hmmm..........a production block build, I like it, that thing will last for ever, nice sensible build. I've waited years for you to get one of those cars to the track, I just about drove out to Great Bend to see this. 2300 pounds 668 HP = 155 mph, 1320 divided by 155 = 8.51, figure your down about .25 @ Great Bend, no problem running 8.70-8.80 there. Its missing some holes in the deck.
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Re: Personal 380 SBC Dyno

Post by treyrags » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:30 am

maxracesoftware wrote:
I remember that C/ED well, they still have it! Erb Brothers from Bazine Kansas. I saw it for the first time in the staging lanes at Topeka. Had a conventional manifold on it with MEAUX ground in it. I was like really? a cast manifold??? First hit it set the record. I like all was in shock.
Chad ... that was the good ole Days :)

my best weekend was when Steve Benoit switched over to B/ED
i built him a 338cid ... no Dyno work or tuning ... just experience
at State Capitol Drags Cajun Nats one year
all the best B/EDs were at the same Track in the same Louisiana bad air :)

there was Bill Maropulos, Danny Byrd, Richie Rosen /Joe Martino, hi dollar Lori Johns, Clint Neff, etc
Benoit was the quickest !
There were lots of very fast cast manifolds back then. That's what most of us had to work with, especially those limited to single 4 barrel. It definitely raised the curiosity factor.
Image

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