power difference between different brand cams

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cspeier
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Re: power difference between different brand cams

Postby cspeier » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:12 pm

In-Tech wrote:
cstraub wrote:
bigjoe1 wrote:I used to use Isky Cams in all the engines I built. After the Engine Master contest, I switched to Comp Cams. I have seen MANY times, when an engine comes back for a freshen up, or just looking for more power, replacing the Isky grind with a Comp grind, any where from 20 to 50 MORE HP. I used to think the brand name did not make any difference, but not any more. I will admit, I do not make a real a to b cam swap. I look to fine something better, and I do.




JOE SHERMAN RACING


I guess on the Flip side Joe you can look at it that you never won the Engine Masters with a Comp, only Isky.


lol, nice clean poke in the ribs.

Erson lobes by Hans Hermann all the way to 11000 rpm in my blown 440 cu in BBC and not one spring change all season. Having worked at Erson I know what lobes to use for what so I am blessed with that knowledge. That being said, you can use another companies lobe and make a few more hp but at the cost of longevity. Carry on :)


Any chance you could tell which lobes are indeed Hermann's? Maybe a PM? :)

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Re: power difference between different brand cams

Postby bigjoe1 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:20 pm

After I won the EM Contest, Comp made me a similar cam to show what I was missing- It made 20 more HP than the Isky I won with. That was when I started using Comp all the time.




JOE SHERMAN RACING

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Re: power difference between different brand cams

Postby MTENGINES » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:23 pm

bigjoe1 wrote:After I won the EM Contest, Comp made me a similar cam to show what I was missing- It made 20 more HP than the Isky I won with. That was when I started using Comp all the time.




JOE SHERMAN RACING


That will happen when you compare to different lobes.

I'm guessing if his advertised and. 50 numbers are similar and his lift is same.. It makes the same Power. The engine doesn't know who's name is on the Cam.

But if Como cams sponsored me I'd probably talk them up a storm.. Just saying

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Re: power difference between different brand cams

Postby MTENGINES » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:35 pm

bigjoe1 wrote:After I won the EM Contest, Comp made me a similar cam to show what I was missing- It made 20 more HP than the Isky I won with. That was when I started using Comp all the time




JOE SHERMAN RACING

I had Ruben Racing Cams grind me a different Cam similar specs both grinds were theirs.. One ate valvesprings and the other made less power.

I think frankshat is leading us to believe the Erson made the same or more power than the overly talked about Walmart of camshaft company.

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Re: power difference between different brand cams

Postby zums » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:53 pm

Frankshaft wrote:To further elaborate about title, what's the thoughts on similar cams from different manufacturers? I just freshened /fixed an engine for a customer that I originally did from scratch. I think I have cycled out the last set of JUNK comp cams lifters from the engines I have built. Never again comp anything for me. Anyhow, obviously the cam was ruined too. This is a good running 406sbc, Dart block, Rhs heads, that I ported, it makes upper 600's for hp, so its no slouch. On most internet dynos, it would make way over 700, lol. Just a strong, basic bracket race deal. Anyhow, new rings, bearings, fresh hone, gaskets, and new Erson/Morrell super duty lifters, and a Erson cam, to replace the comp grind that was in it. Lucky there was minimal or zero damage from the shrapnelled lifter. Nearly identical specs. 1 less at .050 on intake, same ex duration, same lobe Sep, and same lobe lift on both in/ex as old cam, installed at the same intake centerline. I just had as similar of a cam I could, so no potential changes needed to converter, gear etc was needed. Any guesses ? I know I have heard claims from at least one speedtalker who says comp cams make 20-40 more hp than any other cams that are the same size. This Dyno also repeats 1 year, 3 years, 6 years, etc later like dead on, so, its 100% accurate. This spring I have freshened and redynoed 3 engines, that were originally dynode there, and the sheets and graphs would have overlayed each other to the point they were nearly identical.

Thoughts? Guesses?


Kind of an open ended question dont you think, thats like asking how much power will my engine make with 2 sets of heads with a 2.3csa port

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Re: power difference between different brand cams

Postby In-Tech » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:55 pm

MTENGINES wrote: I had Ruben Racing Cams grind me a different Cam similar specs both grinds were theirs.. One ate valvesprings and the other made less power.

I think frankshat is leading us to believe the Erson made the same or more power than the overly talked about Walmart of camshaft company.


Or it made more hp at a higher rpm due to valvetrain stability :wink:
Heat is energy, energy is horsepower...but you gotta control the heat.
-Carl

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Re: power difference between different brand cams

Postby MTENGINES » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:59 pm

In-Tech wrote:
MTENGINES wrote: I had Ruben Racing Cams grind me a different Cam similar specs both grinds were theirs.. One ate valvesprings and the other made less power.

I think frankshat is leading us to believe the Erson made the same or more power than the overly talked about Walmart of camshaft company.


Or it made more hp at a higher rpm due to valvetrain stability :wink:



You are definitely on to something.. :wink:

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Re: power difference between different brand cams

Postby F-BIRD'88 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:18 pm

Cpmp does not make the lifters.

If it is a race roller cam set up, that is intended for racing
it is up to you yo keep up in the roller lifter adjustment
and inspection. If you run yhe lash loose at right at or beyond the
lash point end of the lash ramp you sre going to pay a price for that, unless you dtay right on top of the lash and any change of.

Without details of both cams there is no way yo say.

BigJoe1 dod you give Isky the same opertunity to improve on thrir cam against the Comp cam?

Did Comp get a heads up by knowing what that Isky cam was
(specs) when they made you yheir "bettrr cam"?

it makes a difference.

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Re: power difference between different brand cams

Postby RevTheory » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:01 pm

I think someone may have been tipping the bottle :mrgreen:

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Re: power difference between different brand cams

Postby digger » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:01 pm

if you dont compare valve lift profiles you will probably never know why the engine was different even with very similar cams on paper the specs you get never fully define the lobe.

also what is to say there isnt a difference in valve control that causes a change in output. you see people get changes in torque and power with the same cam by using a better spring

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Re: power difference between different brand cams

Postby randy331 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:28 pm

bigjoe1 wrote:After I won the EM Contest, Comp made me a similar cam to show what I was missing- It made 20 more HP than the Isky I won with. That was when I started using Comp all the time.


Comp probably just narrowed the LSA 1 deg. I've heard that's worth 100 emc points. :lol:

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Re: power difference between different brand cams

Postby F-BIRD'88 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:16 pm

RevTheory wrote:I think someone may have been tipping the bottle :mrgreen:


Either my phone screen is too small, or my fingers are too big. 8)

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Re: power difference between different brand cams

Postby Stan Weiss » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:31 pm

digger wrote:if you dont compare valve lift profiles you will probably never know why the engine was different even with very similar cams on paper the specs you get never fully define the lobe.

also what is to say there isnt a difference in valve control that causes a change in output. you see people get changes in torque and power with the same cam by using a better spring


This is from a few years ago on a different forum. But if all someone looked at was different lifter raise points and duration, these would be the same lobe. :shock:

Stan

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Re: power difference between different brand cams

Postby bigjoe1 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:40 pm

I gave Chet Herbert a very good Isky cam to copy, and his copy was 20 HP LEES than the real thing from Isky- So much for the exact same thing





JOE SHERMAN RACING

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Re: power difference between different brand cams

Postby RevTheory » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:10 am

bigjoe1 wrote:I gave Chet Herbert a very good Isky cam to copy, and his copy was 20 HP LEES than the real thing from Isky- So much for the exact same thing





JOE SHERMAN RACING


Isn't it interesting how a person may not believe something, but that doesn't make it any less true :-k

I'm anxious to try out Howard's new line that came out a month or two ago. I hear their engineer apprenticed under Harold Brookshire and "he's quite good!". Anyone been there yet?


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