Aluminum rods 410 sprint engine

KRYPTINITE RACE ENGINES · Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:26 am

I'm in the process of building a 410 dirt sprint car engine for a customer,we want to keep the rotating assy. as light as possible.I would like your thoughts and recommandations on using aluminum rods.Here's the layout of the engine so far;I know this site is mostly straight line stuff but the amount of info from trusted people here is just overwellming.

Thanks Dean

Rodeck light weight block 4.100 bore
Callies ultralite crank 3.875 stroke/small journal
JE pistons .095 Dome
All-Pro 13* 2.200/1.60 Titanium/SS / Jesel rockers
Estimated hp/tq 850+/650
Kinsler injectors 2 7/8"
Rpm range 8000-8200
Car weight w/driver 1375 lbs.

cboggs · Post by **cboggs** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:00 am

One of the engine builders I work with tried aluminum rods
in his customer's 410 and they couldn't get the car to hook off
the corner, ..

of course it's up to the chassis tuner to make it work, ..
but he said there was a problem and they never tried it again.

I can ask him for more details if you like, ..

Curtis

melsie68 · Post by **melsie68** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:04 am

What is the major factor in you wanting to use aluminum rods? It seems like you are spending a fair amount of money in the other areas so it would appear that cost isn't the reason. Why not spend the money and buy some light weight steel rods that will last? Carrillo or Crower Maxi-Light with Honda Journals? Check out this thread on the subject from a circle track forum...

http://www.4m.net/modules/newbb/viewtop ... 5&forum=18

fredman · Post by **fredman** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:38 pm

Kryiptinite,
In the mid 70's a number of us running 400 ci sm blocks ran through a period of running alum rods. We would pull the motors every other weekend (2 races/weekend) and pitch them. Along the way there were occasional rods breaking. Back then we didn't have the better materials for the rods and were at least 200 hp down from where we are today. We have (5) 410's and (3) 360's and all are Dyer's rods and NO ALUMINUM. Your hp figures are in the ballpark and if you check out all the top engine builders I doubt you'll find alum in theirs and I'm not sure you as an engine builder want that liability to your reputation or to the customer. JMO
Fred

RW TECH · Post by **RW TECH** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:27 pm

I agree with Fred about the rods and would suggest the Dyers piece as well.

I'm also wondering why you'd use the stainless exhaust valve? It's pretty heavy once you put a 15° or so underhead angle on it.

EngineTech1 · Post by **EngineTech1** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:48 pm

I agree with melsie and RW, We build a lot of 410+ Late model dirt engines and we would NEVER put an aluminum rod in one. Carrillo, Dyers, Arrow, and Crower all make bad ass, light steel rods. The Crower Titanium rods are probably the way to go for what you are doing. I would also not run a SS exhaust valve in an engine like that with 13* heads. The valves are probably pretty long in that head and a SS exh valve would be pretty heavy at any length.

fredman · Post by **fredman** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:07 am

Dean,

The Ti rods would be cool, and will work great, although expensive. Might check the assoc'ns that your customer runs with to see if there's any restriction to Ti rods. We've run into that. You might check a search here on "composite" rods. I believe in one of the posts that there was a gentleman that was going to be coming out with a composite rod that was outlawed by NHRA/IHRA but sounds killer. FWIW, we are running Ti intakes and exhausts on All Pro RE's. We gear for 5800-8700 rpm and build appropriately for tear downs every 8-10 races.

Fred

hsutton · Post by **hsutton** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:55 am

You must be refering to the Jager composite rods. I think NHRA outlawed them because they were supposedly too light giving a top pro stock team some kind of advantage. They were half the price of the titanium rods on the market so i don't see that excuse holding water. Probably had more to do with not padding the santioning bodies pockets as is the common practice. Post up a big contingency program and bingo your parts suddenly get approved. I've heard some of these can be run without needing bearings.

fredman · Post by **fredman** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:00 am

hsutton,

Your right on with the Jager rods. Couldn't find and website but I believe I PM'd Chris Staub because he is a personal friend of Jager's. Thanks for the brain reminder.

Fred

Strange Magic · Post by **Strange Magic** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:04 am

If your looking for weight savings and reliability you might want to consider a strut style piston with a two inch C350 material wrist pin. Your piston should fall in between 335-355 grams and the pin at 76-78 grams and this set up is extremely strong. I wouldn't consider aluminum rods on the application discusssed.

The dynamic cylinder pressures are typically greater on alky and with a well supported piston you will see HP and torque gains.

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:53 am

Strange Magic wrote:If your looking for weight savings and reliability you might want to consider a strut style piston with a two inch C350 material wrist pin. Your piston should fall in between 335-355 grams and the pin at 76-78 grams and this set up is extremely strong. I wouldn't consider aluminum rods on the application discusssed.

The dynamic cylinder pressures are typically greater on alky and with a well supported piston you will see HP and torque gains.

Whaaa? 2, as in T-W-O inch pin??

fredman · Post by **fredman** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:55 pm

Thanks Chris for the info repeat. Do you know if Jager is going to have a website? Is there any materials info available on his recipe and possibly pictures?

Fred

rtz · Post by **rtz** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:12 pm

Here is a pic from 2004:

flyin ryan · Post by **flyin ryan** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:41 pm

cstraub wrote:Jager will back into production this quarter. His 6" rod weights in at about 460gms if memory serves me correctly. This rod is designed to be used in any engine that uses a steel rod.

Pricing should be at the racer level around $1450 to $1550 a set for his 1000HP rated rods.

Some sprint and super late models have already been running these.

he told me the same, should be up & running soon. he's trying to do everything in house, i believe. can't wait.

Charliesauto · Post by **Charliesauto** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:03 am

cstraub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:57 pm Jager will back into production this quarter. His 6" rod weights in at about 460gms if memory serves me correctly. This rod is designed to be used in any engine that uses a steel rod.

Pricing should be at the racer level around $1450 to $1550 a set for his 1000HP rated rods.

Some sprint and super late models have already been running these.

Eleven years, still no magic rods?

Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk

Aluminum rods 410 sprint engine

Aluminum rods 410 sprint engine

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