Is one tooth off (cam/crank) noticeable on daily driver?

[roc]

Car talk and beer with friends, this topic cames up:

On a typical daily driver, if cam/crank is or gets misaligned by a single tooth, will it be noticeable to the driver (performance and/or fuel economy)?

My only closer experience was with a VW 1.8L 30 years ago, I miss-shifted racing it (went to 3rd instead of 5th), and the engine lost a little power and fuel economy after that. Years later upon taking the engine apart, I spotted that the crank gear (sprocket?), sintered metal, had spun a bit, sheared the alignment pin. But that offset was more than a single-tooth.

I curious for real experiences, or dyno data. Thanks guys!

[Boz-Race Engines]

yes, not to mention damage that can occure if a certain engine has close piston to valve cearance

[Alaskaracer]

YES! One tooth is a lot when it comes to cam timing. Some engines it can mean the difference between bent valves or not...and it also depends on which way. Retarded or advanced...

[roc]

Thanks guys!

But... consider no damage, just out of synch.... still noticeable?

[PackardV8]

But... consider no damage, just out of synch.... still noticeable?

To whom? On those I drive regularly, I can feel changes much smaller than one cam tooth. Other numbnuts, I get in their ride and immediately say, "Can't you hear/feel that?" and their answer is always, "What?"

[Steve.k]

If you never drove the car before it was changed i doubt You could tell. I purchased a cleveland car once that had timing set 1 tooth retarded. It cruised fine and with 411 gears beat most cars in a drag. However it never seemed to get on the power to late in rpm band. We attributed this to what we thought was a oversize cam for street use. Ran like that for a fair bit then tore it down and discovered tooth out one knotch. But other than the little lazy bottom ran fine.

[roc]

But... consider no damage, just out of synch.... still noticeable?

To whom? On those I drive regularly, I can feel changes much smaller than one cam tooth. Other numbnuts, I get in their ride and immediately say, "Can't you hear/feel that?" and their answer is always, "What?"

I hear you Jack, I do the same.

Generally speaking, does being one-tooth off trigger fault codes? Actual examples?

[modok]

One tooth probably 15 degrees or more. YES it's noticeable.

[Steve.k]

One tooth probably 15 degrees or more. YES it's noticeable.

If you drove it in straight up position yes. If you hadn't how would you know the difference?

[red77]

Very noticeable on a 4 Cyl. V6 can be a bit less noticeable if you are not used to the vehicle. I have had to redo many timing belts for new guys over the years. Most of the newer engines with variable valve timing will set a check engine light for some type of cam/crank correlation code. Most of my experience is with Toyota.

[modok]

Every engine I build personally, I degree the cam.
Every engine I build for others, I at least observe split overlap. Being off 20 degrees is visible to the naked eye.

I probably DO have a knack for it, but, I bet anybody can do it with practice.
My buddy used to have me check every time he put on a timing belt ect, but after 6-7 jobs, he had it handled and now isn't afraid of it at all. "it's so easy" he says

[user-612937456]

Yes absolutely advanced it crawls from a stop and if its retarded it accelerates off from a stop but falls on its face as the rpms come on and this if it doesnt bend valves.

Its not driveable either way.

[Steve.k]

Yes absolutely advanced it crawls from a stop and if its retarded it accelerates off from a stop but falls on its face as the rpms come on and this if it doesnt bend valves.

Its not driveable either way.

You have that the opposite! Advance puts piwer band lower in rpm range. Retard puts it higher in rpm.

[DaveMcLain]

I've had several engines come in that were timed using the key to line up to the dot on the cam gear. I've seen this done on an Olds, a Big Chrysler and a couple of Chevy engines. This would advance the cam 45 degrees and it makes the engine run really weird. It sounds very flat when you rev the throttle, retarded sounding even though the ignition timing is set correctly. The big Chrysler was in a Dodge Dart and it couldn't spin the tires on a gravel driveway. The one Chevy small block only made 306 horsepower after the problem was fixed I wonder what it would have made with the cam out of time???

[Steve.k]

Wow 45 degrees advance thats a bit Dave. This Cleveland i had you would swear nothing was wrong ! It had a nasty romp at idle would rev up sitting in neutral and sounded crisp. The only reason we questioned anything was it would start to pull hard at end of quarter on big blocks. I pulled down at end of year to refresh and found it was out.once i lined it up and re bearing itwas real fast. Lol.