AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by amcenthusiast »

Willing to follow up with pics showing measurements... after lunch break!
XRV8 Race Parts website: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/
YouTube video of 443 XRV8 Gremlin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DmFOKRuzUc
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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by Carnut1 »

Little Willys engine and the cj5 it belonged to was sold before I moved to Florida. My Dad bought it for me when I was 14 and had it till I was nearly 50. I took detailed pictures of the workup but as digital sometime is they were all lost with a crash. Doing a off brand buildup I can appreciate this V8 build and the amount of effort in doing one. Thanks, Charlie
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Last edited by Carnut1 on Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by PackardV8 »

I'm an obsolete guy and have always appreciated the Gen I AMC V8 design, even though it replaced the Packard V8 in Hashes from mid-56-on, but can't totally get with:
And that Jeep engine finds vintage comparison to similar Crosley inline 4 cyl. engine?
Be difficult to find two less similar than the Willys vs the Crosley. That they're both small inline fours is all that comes to mind.
After seeing exhaust port molds made by K.Parkman, one might ask; 'Why did they do it that way?' 2) Thermal engineering; applying former inline 'heat management' into an all new V8 size package; less priority on visual/more priority on scavenging theory, exhaust vapor and metallurgical expansion rates and overall compactness of design.
So the early AMC V8 exhaust port is good science as designed and time on the flow bench would be counterproductive? If such advanced thermal engineering, why has this exhaust port design not been replicated on all OHVs since?

Agree, the AMC is certainly more compact than the early hemi, Studebaker and Packard V8s, but overall, it's about average for the mid-'50s era and definitely larger than the '60s-up V8s of similar displacement.

We still find the early AMCs coming out of old boats of that era, but few owners want them rebuilt. They just go Chevy for half the money.
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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by amcenthusiast »

Oh shoot, I goofed and you caught me; that's right, the Crosley inline four is OHC? (sorry for rose colored glasses on memory lane? I was just having fun with that man's comment/interjections)

Human nature to make all things 'black and white' for simplified understanding? (no it's not 'such advanced engineering' it is rather conventional 'middle-of-the-road' when we 'place all the cards on the table' making vintage comparisons)

Interestingly enough (but might comb Ford lover hair the wrong way) is how '58 Ford FE V8 looks like semi-copy of '56 AMRV8 by it's front cut away view (it has exposed roof/water jacket underneath exhaust ports also)

see: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/photo.html
Warning! that is a 'Pro-AMC' website, written by me to promote my favorite engine!

Of course flow bench can help, and wet bench, but still neither can't duplicate flow during engine hot operation. (same goes for Packard V8 etc. because exhaust port roof runs significantly hotter changing flow rate...what... about 800 to 1000 degrees?)

Visual size and overall 'look' compares closest to Studebaker V8, then '53-'62 Cad V8 (Cad V8 was revised in '62/'63 for weight reduction bringing it's weight down to 599 lbs. compared to AMRV8's 601 lb. generic rating) New Ford small block & 'new' Chrysler LA V8 tilted chess board towards lighter V8 engines in mid sixties?

Eventually I'd like to advance this discussion towards showing various Rambler component part weights for comparison to 'other make' engines, space and time permitting here.

*A lengthy book could be more carefully written on these subjects.

Thank you J. Vine for your astute observations to help me avoid such glaring mistakes.

*'B O A T' stands for 'bring out another thousand'? (this 443 Gremlin project is a $4000 engine in a $4000 chassis)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One side of exhaust port engineering theory explains use of 'pinch point' to enhance velocity, to improve scavenging.

In exhaust header design theory, according to "EPI Inc." http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_te ... nology.htm the 'pinch point' (my words) is the location that sets up the exhaust port scavenging wave & sends it down the header pipe.

On '56-'65 Rambler V8s, the pinch point that sets up the scavenging wave is located at the horizontal rectangular outlet of the valve port pocket > that location shown with measurements in following pics:

[img]
exhportmeasur1.JPG
exhportmeasur2.JPG
exhportmeasur3.JPG
exhportmeasur4.JPG
[/img]

* Variations of these 'pinch points' amongst various engines is basically what gives them their distinctive sounds > the shape pre-determines the sonic wave frequency emitted from the engine http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... on.html#c1
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Last edited by amcenthusiast on Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
XRV8 Race Parts website: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/
YouTube video of 443 XRV8 Gremlin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DmFOKRuzUc
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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by amcenthusiast »

Pending notes with reference to circumference and estimated volume of areas noted as per http://www.csgnetwork.com/circle_sphere ... lator.html and http://www.csgnetwork.com/recareacalc.html

The port areas should be calculated for appropriate port taper during porting process to go along with oversize valve installation, as per D. Vizard's recommendations and/or in keeping with stock engineered port taper.
XRV8 Race Parts website: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/
YouTube video of 443 XRV8 Gremlin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DmFOKRuzUc
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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by amcenthusiast »

How to enlarge the difficult exhaust port shape?

[img]
exhportlongshaftcrbidebit1.JPG
exhportlongshaftcrbidebit2.JPG
[/img]

Notice I'm keeping a secret about how to get in and relieve the short side radius: in these pics one may see the short side radius is radically reduced (with no 'breaking through' into water jacket)
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XRV8 Race Parts website: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/
YouTube video of 443 XRV8 Gremlin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DmFOKRuzUc
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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by amcenthusiast »

Simple tool allows removing material from short side radius in RV8 exhaust ports to increase size of the horizontal rectangular valve pocket outlet:

[img]
exhstprtng%20tip1.JPG
exhstprtng%20tip2.JPG
[/img]

Without this tool, K. Parkman is correct; 'almost impossible to reach in and touch short side radius with any porting tools'... as the radius is reduced, the port becomes easier to work on with ordinary porting tools.
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XRV8 Race Parts website: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/
YouTube video of 443 XRV8 Gremlin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DmFOKRuzUc
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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by amcenthusiast »

The Cadillac V8 engine design was arguably the benchmark engine of the industry when AMC realized they must make their own V8 in order to compete with any sense of competency.

A direct comparison of these heads side by side basically destroys the old AMC myth about D. Potter's 288 Kaiser V8 engine having design preeminence. (the internal shape of the Cad exhaust ports is basically an upside down OHV version of the same ports they were using on their previous flathead V8 & AM's '56-'65 RV8 heads look to be a very close copy)

Pic of Cad head gleaned from http://www.hotrod.com/articles/building ... -carb-v-8/ (thank you) ...pretty sure those are the redesigned '63-'67 Cad heads though, slightly different than the '53-'62 type.

[img]
comparo2cad.JPG
429?Cadheads.jpg
[/img]
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XRV8 Race Parts website: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/
YouTube video of 443 XRV8 Gremlin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DmFOKRuzUc
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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by Carnut1 »

Any chance of posting the before and after flow numbers?
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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by psychomotors »

Keep the info coming. Very cool build of a not so common engine. =D>
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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by Keith Morganstein »

http://www.worldpowersystems.com/AMC/Ra ... tails).htm

That was a interesting read. Thx for the link!
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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by amcenthusiast »

Oh great; glad you enjoyed it! Well written for anyone who likes engines, I think.

...right now I'm searching Internet to find obscure article about Cadillac exhaust ports, just to double check my own info so excuse me for now...
XRV8 Race Parts website: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/
YouTube video of 443 XRV8 Gremlin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DmFOKRuzUc
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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by amcenthusiast »

Sorry Carnut1 I'm too poor right now to pay for flowbench stuff -sure would like to though.
XRV8 Race Parts website: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/
YouTube video of 443 XRV8 Gremlin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DmFOKRuzUc
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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by amcenthusiast »

Ok I found the pic of the flathead Cad V8 siamesed center exhaust port. This shape looks very similar to the next OHV Cad V8 and AM's RV8 siamesed center exhaust ports:

[img]
fCadcntrprt.JPG
[/img]
[img]
RV8cntrxtprt.JPG
[/img]

If you all would like, and if y'all think it's ok, I could post about 36 pictures of exhaust port work done on 443's current pair of heads here?
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XRV8 Race Parts website: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/
YouTube video of 443 XRV8 Gremlin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DmFOKRuzUc
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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by jcisworthy »

amcenthusiast wrote:Sorry Carnut1 I'm too poor right now to pay for flowbench stuff -sure would like to though.

I know there is cost in shipping but if you send me the heads I will flow them for free.
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