Old Methanol

[cgarb]

Ok Speedtalk members got a question. I've recently taken a chance on some methanol for my race car. A local Craigslist ad listed 330 gals of methanol for sale. Guy says he wants 1 dollar a gallon. The fellow was getting out of making Bio diesel. Turns out the methanol was from my local fuel distributor, has his label on the drums. It was also marked clear which means there is not top lube in the fuel. The fuel was stored outside. I knew it was older fuel because the drums are different than my local supplier uses now, these were in the old style drums. I took a chance and bought them because they were never opened, still have the metal seal rings on the bungs. I cleaned the drums up at home and noted the MFG date on the bottoms of the barrels was 2007. I opened 2 of the drums and gave it a quick smell check...lol. Methanol will tickle your nose if you get a good whiff of it. My new fuel I got this year is really strong smelling compared to this fuel that is in question. Not wanting to fly blind I bought a methanol purity test kit. A hydrometer to check the specific gravity of the fuel.
When I follow the directions to the test kit these were my results: fuel temp was 62 deg and the chart says the specific gravity of methanol should be .7943. The hydrometer floated at .796. That calculates to 99.40 percent pure. My question is why would this older fuel smell less potent than fresh stuff? If it checks 99.4 percent pure is it ok to run?

[Seanh832]

http://www.clarksonlab.com/pages/state10.pdf

[ijames]

62F is pretty cool. When you did the sniff test on your good fuel that you are remembering, was it on a hot summer day when the vapor pressure of the methanol was much higher? Try it at the same temp and I bet your nose says they are the same.

Don't open any more of the drums until you are ready to use it, you want to keep that factory seal to keep water out.

[DaveMcLain]

As long as the drums were sealed I can't see that there would be any problem.

[Pro-SeriesFab]

I agree with dave.

I've run 5 year old methanol before . . . didn't notice a change at all.

As long as you keep it sealed (and mine was in a storage unit, not outside) I'm not sure why there would be a problem. If you don't want it, I'll buy it

[ZIGGY]

Run it. For a bit more peace of mind, mix old with new at 20% or so.
Done it myself, just not that old.

[NormS]

The standard specific gravity for Methanol that we used 20-30 years ago was .792 @ 60degreesF fuel temp. If the alcohol is allowed to absorb water from humid air, its gravity goes up. If the gravity of water contaminated methanol reaches .800 @ 60 degrees, then it is about 4% water. Most racing engines will have trouble long before the water contamination gets to 4%.

When methanol gets contaminated with enough water, there starts a chemical reaction that slowly releases heat(exothermic reaction). Pure methanol feels cold on the skin, but contaminated alcohol that has this exothermic reaction going on, will actually feel warm .

Like the other guys said, keep any alcohol fuel in sealed containers, with as little air space in those containers as you can manage. This means that the alcohol in the fuel cell in the racecar should be removed and put back in a sealed container shortly after a racing event, and should stay there until its time to go racing again. I've seen oval track engines damaged because the alcohol was left in the fuel cell from one race to the next, and allowed to absorb water from the air through the vent of the fuel cell.

I know all this draining and fuel transfer is a pain in the butt, but think about how much you've spent on your engine and fuel system. Have you seen any white crusty corrosion in your fuel system? If so, that's from water in your fuel, not from the fuel itself.

[raynorshine]

i don't like using old methanol myself...to me it's a variable and i don't like adding variables when i'm trying to bracket race to the hundredth or less...

[cgarb]

Well, try racing when your variable is having the money to pay entry fee or not. Believe me if I was cruising to the track in a toter rig with a top sportsman car in the box I wouldn't be asking these kinds of questions.

[hoodeng]

If you were in group one you would not use anything but the freshest and best of any fuel required by your category at all times , if you are 'in the points' in other categories you would give yourself the best shot at success and not run a question mark fuel , if you are out for fun and the fuel shows up as being in spec enjoy your purchase! Set it up fat and go from there.
Don't forget to document any fuel system changes that are made ,if any, so if you go back to a new drum of fuel you wont be in fuel wilderness when that occurs.

[Dave Koehler]

Ok Speedtalk members got a question. I've recently taken a chance on some methanol for my race car. A local Craigslist ad listed 330 gals of methanol for sale. Guy says he wants 1 dollar a gallon. The fellow was getting out of making Bio diesel. Turns out the methanol was from my local fuel distributor, has his label on the drums. It was also marked clear which means there is not top lube in the fuel. The fuel was stored outside. I knew it was older fuel because the drums are different than my local supplier uses now, these were in the old style drums. I took a chance and bought them because they were never opened, still have the metal seal rings on the bungs. I cleaned the drums up at home and noted the MFG date on the bottoms of the barrels was 2007. I opened 2 of the drums and gave it a quick smell check...lol. Methanol will tickle your nose if you get a good whiff of it. My new fuel I got this year is really strong smelling compared to this fuel that is in question. Not wanting to fly blind I bought a methanol purity test kit. A hydrometer to check the specific gravity of the fuel.
When I follow the directions to the test kit these were my results: fuel temp was 62 deg and the chart says the specific gravity of methanol should be .7943. The hydrometer floated at .796. That calculates to 99.40 percent pure. My question is why would this older fuel smell less potent than fresh stuff? If it checks 99.4 percent pure is it ok to run?

Where do you read the meniscus at, the bottom of the 1/2 bubble or the top? I think you are fine by the way. There can also be some variables between hydrometers as well as thermometers.
This video has a good image of reading the meniscus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9XAiRbL7t4

[cgarb]

Although I didn't know the proper procedure for reading the hydrometer beforehand, I did manage to read it correctly. I sighted the plane of the methanol as described in the video. Thanks for the link. Good to know. The directions that came with the hydrometer we're not as detailed as the video. I have a bigger race to go to memorial day weekend, I have about 25 gals of my fresh fuel left. I think I'm going to try some of the older fuel this weekend and see if I notice any difference on my EGT's. Hope everything works out.

[cgarb]

Ran some of this fuel last Saturday, zero change in EGT and it ran perfectly fine. I would say I'm good to go. It wasn't like I added the new fuel a little at a time, I drained my fuel cell to change out my new fuel pump and put the new fuel in 100 percent.

[Dave Koehler]

If it is of some help I have a temp versus SG chart in pdf format here.
http://www.koehlerinjection.com/tech-articles.html

[cgarb]

Thanks Dave, same chart came with my Hydrometer.