ATK cylinder heads - good, bad or ugly?

[cgarb]

Somebody just fell off the AFR bandwagon...lol.

[WeingartnerRacing]

It's not bashing. Someone asked a question and I answered the question based on measurable tests I have performed.

Here is the thing, I sell every manufactures heads, Brodix, Profiler, AFR, Dart, RHS, Trick Flow etc. If someone asks me a question about any of the heads I sell I will tell them the honest truth based on both facts based on testing and my opinion. What I will not do is act like there are no problems because I deal with a certain manufacture more than others. When I have an issue and I have had at least one problem with every manufacture over the years I contact them or someone associated with them and relay the problem. Some manufactures will go out of their way to fix issues others just use the standard line. "That's the first time I have heard of that." Then they do nothing. I fix the issue and learn from it. Nature of the beast. Selling something to me is not as important to me as giving honest answers.

Before anyone thinks I am bashing them I would like to say this. I make more profit selling a Profiler heads than I do any other manufacture. So I would make more money not saying anything about them. It might actually hurt my business more than Profiler with me saying the facts. There is no better as cast head at 195cc or 210cc range than profiler. Some even claim they are better than other cnc heads at this range. I don't know if I believe that but maybe. I use Profiler heads in almost all my 220cc and down size sbc heads because it will make the most power. That segment they are the best at. They just have issues that just need to be fixed and they can be easily.

That's all I have to say on the matter.

[raynorshine]

It's not bashing. Someone asked a question and I answered the question based on measurable tests I have performed.

Here is the thing, I sell every manufactures heads, Brodix, Profiler, AFR, Dart, RHS, Trick Flow etc. If someone asks me a question about any of the heads I sell I will tell them the honest truth based on both facts based on testing and my opinion. What I will not do is act like there are no problems because I deal with a certain manufacture more than others. When I have an issue and I have had at least one problem with every manufacture over the years I contact them or someone associated with them and relay the problem. Some manufactures will go out of their way to fix issues others just use the standard line. "That's the first time I have heard of that." Then they do nothing. I fix the issue and learn from it. Nature of the beast. Selling something to me is not as important to me as giving honest answers.

Before anyone thinks I am bashing them I would like to say this. I make more profit selling a Profiler heads than I do any other manufacture. So I would make more money not saying anything about them. It might actually hurt my business more than Profiler with me saying the facts. There is no better as cast head at 195cc or 210cc range than profiler. Some even claim they are better than other cnc heads at this range. I don't know if I believe that but maybe. I use Profiler heads in almost all my 220cc and down size sbc heads because it will make the most power. That segment they are the best at. They just have issues that just need to be fixed and they can be easily.

That's all I have to say on the matter.

thanks for the reply Eric, i was waiting i don't consider it bashing either...just sharing your experience that's all and i appreciate it

[user-9274568]

Somebody just fell off the AFR bandwagon...lol.

No me, I won't work on them. Haven't for 4+ years.

[user-9274568]

It's not bashing. Someone asked a question and I answered the question based on measurable tests I have performed.

Here is the thing, I sell every manufactures heads, Brodix, Profiler, AFR, Dart, RHS, Trick Flow etc. If someone asks me a question about any of the heads I sell I will tell them the honest truth based on both facts based on testing and my opinion. What I will not do is act like there are no problems because I deal with a certain manufacture more than others. When I have an issue and I have had at least one problem with every manufacture over the years I contact them or someone associated with them and relay the problem. Some manufactures will go out of their way to fix issues others just use the standard line. "That's the first time I have heard of that." Then they do nothing. I fix the issue and learn from it. Nature of the beast. Selling something to me is not as important to me as giving honest answers.

Before anyone thinks I am bashing them I would like to say this. I make more profit selling a Profiler heads than I do any other manufacture. So I would make more money not saying anything about them. It might actually hurt my business more than Profiler with me saying the facts. There is no better as cast head at 195cc or 210cc range than profiler. Some even claim they are better than other cnc heads at this range. I don't know if I believe that but maybe. I use Profiler heads in almost all my 220cc and down size sbc heads because it will make the most power. That segment they are the best at. They just have issues that just need to be fixed and they can be easily.

That's all I have to say on the matter.

I wouldn't recommend ANY mass produced out of the box head, period. However your issues are petty on the Pro-Filer casting, MY OPINION.

[WeingartnerRacing]

Valve jobs and their ability to seal petty, gotcha.

[user-9274568]

There is a simple fix. Order your castings square and guides in a bag....

OR, hit the factory valve job with a stone, takes 10 minutes. Run a AV&V through the guides, takes 10 minutes..

[77cruiser]

There is a simple fix. Order your castings square and guides in a bag....

OR, hit the factory valve job with a stone, takes 10 minutes. Run a AV&V through the guides, takes 10 minutes..

Knock the seats all the way down first.

[user-9274568]

There is a simple fix. Order your castings square and guides in a bag....

OR, hit the factory valve job with a stone, takes 10 minutes. Run a AV&V through the guides, takes 10 minutes..

Knock the seats all the way down first.

That's right, water out of a seat, wasn't that it?

Some of you guys would crap if you have opened as many head boxes as I have and saw the stuff I have to deal with..

This stuff blows me away.

[lefty o]

There is a simple fix. Order your castings square and guides in a bag....

OR, hit the factory valve job with a stone, takes 10 minutes. Run a AV&V through the guides, takes 10 minutes..

Knock the seats all the way down first.

That's right, water out of a seat, wasn't that it?

Some of you guys would crap if you have opened as many head boxes as I have and saw the stuff I have to deal with..

This stuff blows me away.

well if it all came perfect out of the box, youd bitch about not having any customers! LOL

[user-9274568]

well if it all came perfect out of the box, youd bitch about not having any customers! LOL

EXACTLY! It's WHAT WE DO! I guess when you do it part time you can be picky. I just fix the shit and wait for something really big to worry about.

I'm done, this is stupid as hell.

[WeingartnerRacing]

There is a simple fix. Order your castings square and guides in a bag....

OR, hit the factory valve job with a stone, takes 10 minutes. Run a AV&V through the guides, takes 10 minutes..

You are being ridiculous. I am getting the same heads as anybody else gets. So what profiler needs to do with each set of heads is include a reamer and a stone set with each set of heads they sell because Joe blow isn't going to have that stuff?

For the speedtalk world let me tell what is wrong with what he said. The heads are too far out of round to use a stone in my opinion. If you use a stone this what you get a fat seat width on one side of the seat and on the other side it is thin. This also means that when you do this you wipe out half of your undercut on one side of the seat but not the other. You do this it will seal but you go flow that head and it will be down at least 10cfm. That sure defeats the purpose of nice flowing heads. I guess if you do this full time and you need to sell things that is ok but if you are part time you do it properly by putting it in the seat and guide machine and cutting a five angle valve job and blend it. That can take about 2hours if your tooling is not set up.

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

With regards to as-cast ports, is there anything you would like to see that isn't offered today?
For example, would a port with minimal or zero molding draft (taper) be worth anything to you?

I have sectioned several heads and find that some of the after market heads really take a short-cut when it comes to water jackets.
Such as:
* no water flow near the spark plug
* not much near the ex valve guides

How about chamber density/hardness?
Edelbrock has has a semi permanent casting set-up that forms the deck side of the head with a steel die, that should make the area more dense. Also they use the HIP process to make them even more dense. I don't hear much about them, is it because of design, price, something else?

How about rocker stands, I am wondering if having mounts for an inexpensive rocker shaft from 340 A series Chrysler with cheap extruded rockers would help people get past the offset push-rod issue without spending so much money. The standard SBC stud locations are not very convenient in some ways.

[user-9274568]

There is a simple fix. Order your castings square and guides in a bag....

OR, hit the factory valve job with a stone, takes 10 minutes. Run a AV&V through the guides, takes 10 minutes..

You are being ridiculous. I am getting the same heads as anybody else gets. So what profiler needs to do with each set of heads is include a reamer and a stone set with each set of heads they sell because Joe blow isn't going to have that stuff?

For the speedtalk world let me tell what is wrong with what he said. The heads are too far out of round to use a stone in my opinion. If you use a stone this what you get a fat seat width on one side of the seat and on the other side it is thin. This also means that when you do this you wipe out half of your undercut on one side of the seat but not the other. You do this it will seal but you go flow that head and it will be down at least 10cfm. That sure defeats the purpose of nice flowing heads. I guess if you do this full time and you need to sell things that is ok but if you are part time you do it properly by putting it in the seat and guide machine and cutting a five angle valve job and blend it. That can take about 2hours if your tooling is not set up.

I wonder how many people have complained from all the THOUSANDS sold from Jeg's, Sumitt, PBM, and EPW. I guess they are just stupid.

I have NEVER had a seat that far out.

I give up Eric. Your the man.

[WeingartnerRacing]

They probably don't know and never checked. I made a video of an out of the box Jegs Profilier a couple of months ago put it on my fb page. Hard to call bs when it's right there. Straight out of the box wouldn't pull vacuum. There is no way a stone wouldn't have done exactly what I said.

I give up with you. I stand by what I posted.