Spare parts engine build

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

phantomfab
Member
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:12 am
Location:

Spare parts engine build

Post by phantomfab »

putting an engine together out of parts laying around for a race coming up at the beginning of this season. I normally run bmods but there is a big race for the Amods that i would like to run in. i have a .060 and a .030 350 chevy block. I have flattops for both blocks and a set of 11:1 domes for the 360.

Cams I have are a 300 crane, cant remember specs, ill check later and a cam that I'm unsure of the only thing on it is a 1z206 and its a 550/545 lift, both are solid lift cams and an isky sl2 details as follows

Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,400-6,800
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 236
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 240
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 236 int./240 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 276
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 280
Advertised Duration: 276 int./280 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.390 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.410 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.390 int./0.410 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees): 106

intakes are a perfermer rpm, a older single plane high rise weind (non air gap), a vic jr, and a hurricane intake, or a c3b eldelbrock and a plain old 2101 performer.

heads I have are:
462 double humps,
487x's
058 305 vortecs with small valves
882's
624's
993's(hecho en mexico)
416's (305 head with 1.94/1.6 valves put in)

I'm wondering out of the parts listed which would be the best parts to put together to perform the best. Not wanting to build an engine with a set of 882's a big solid lift cam and a single plane intake expecting it to perform. But i was thinking of running the dome pistons with the 462 heads and the 550/545 cam, topped off with the victor jr intake. And maybe putting the 993's on the 355 with flattops and the isky cam with a performer rpm intake unless someone thinks the crane cam would work better. I have two cars that i am taking to a play day next weekend and i can put two engines together to try. The reason for using the flattop engine with 993's is I can change the intake and run it as a bmod.

Sorry for not having a whole lot of details for you all, I'm just wanting a second opinion on some of this. These are the parts I have laying around and was just wanting something to run a couple races with. I usually run a bmod but i may take the Other car a few times as an Amod. The motors are limited to a 8400 rpm limit which im almost positive I will never hit. Thanks in advance. I know this is kind of a shot in the dark.
Walter R. Malik
Guru
Guru
Posts: 6353
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:15 am
Location: Roseville, Michigan (just north of Detroit)
Contact:

Re: Spare parts engine build

Post by Walter R. Malik »

Personally, I would use the large valved 416's, milled to keep the compression ratio high

Use the "Hurricane" intake; if it is a regular Hurricane and not one of the larger ones offered ...
http://www.rmcompetition.com
Specialty engine building at its finest.
user-612937456

Re: Spare parts engine build

Post by user-612937456 »

The 487X's is the best flowing head you have listed I think you can put up to 2.05/1.6 valves and angle mill them to maximize the compression in it and yes the hurricane intake and lastly splurge on the cam and call Mike Jones, Terry Walters, or Chris Straub and let them grind you a camshaft. Unless you are satisfied with running in the middle or back of the field. In most cases you don't throw hodgepodge of used parts laying around (unless you have a surplus of premium components) and magically transform them into competitive engine.
phantomfab
Member
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:12 am
Location:

Re: Spare parts engine build

Post by phantomfab »

gvx wrote:The 487X's is the best flowing head you have listed I think you can put up to 2.05/1.6 valves and angle mill them to maximize the compression in it and yes the hurricane intake and lastly splurge on the cam and call Mike Jones, Terry Walters, or Chris Straub and let them grind you a camshaft. Unless you are satisfied with running in the middle or back of the field. In most cases you don't throw hodgepodge of used parts laying around (unless you have a surplus of premium components) and magically transform them into competitive engine.
I'm not trying to be a dick in any way but I'm fine with mid to the back of the back for this race. I'm mainly running it to get more time in the car. I'll already be running a car as a bmod and this is my backup car That i bought over the winter and have no time in the car. But to reply to the this, you think the 487x's would work better in this engine even though the compression loss? I actually don't wanna go as far as the angle mill and 2.05 on them, might flat mill as far as they'll go and 2.02's to keep them bmod legal. Those heads go high enough right now if i wanna move up i can sell them to the bmod guys for a high enough price to buy a better aftermarket head if i move up to the Amods. I appreciate the reply though.
phantomfab
Member
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:12 am
Location:

Re: Spare parts engine build

Post by phantomfab »

Walter R. Malik wrote:Personally, I would use the large valved 416's, milled to keep the compression ratio high

Use the "Hurricane" intake; if it is a regular Hurricane and not one of the larger ones offered ...
You'd use the 416's over the double humps? They have the same chamber size.
Carnut1
Guru
Guru
Posts: 4659
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:32 pm
Location: Melbourne fl.

Re: Spare parts engine build

Post by Carnut1 »

Fuelies would be my first choice, then surprise the 416' with some work then the vortec with some work and finally the 487 large chamber. Jmo. Thanks, Charlie
Servedio Cylinder Head Development
631-816-4911
9:00am - 9:00pm EST
Walter R. Malik
Guru
Guru
Posts: 6353
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:15 am
Location: Roseville, Michigan (just north of Detroit)
Contact:

Re: Spare parts engine build

Post by Walter R. Malik »

phantomfab wrote:
Walter R. Malik wrote:Personally, I would use the large valved 416's, milled to keep the compression ratio high

Use the "Hurricane" intake; if it is a regular Hurricane and not one of the larger ones offered ...
You'd use the 416's over the double humps? They have the same chamber size.
I was presuming the OP was going to use whichever heads with the valves which he had in them and his 416's already have 1.6" exhaust valves.
http://www.rmcompetition.com
Specialty engine building at its finest.
ssregal39
Member
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:41 am
Location: Norfolk VA

Re: Spare parts engine build

Post by ssregal39 »

What sanctioning body? Do A mods have cubic inch limit? Roller cam and whatnot? UMP mods have no CI limit, roller cam, 4bbl. Most of these have 410-440 ci.
.02
phantomfab
Member
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:12 am
Location:

Re: Spare parts engine build

Post by phantomfab »

ssregal39 wrote:What sanctioning body? Do A mods have cubic inch limit? Roller cam and whatnot? UMP mods have no CI limit, roller cam, 4bbl. Most of these have 410-440 ci.
.02
I have a 408 roller engine that is technically legal. And i do have a few spare roller cams but thought theyd be useless considering the heads i have available and i dont have a rev kit. And the big engines or roller motors have to run a 3 inch spoiler and weigh 2550. Running a 360 with a flat tappet cam i'm limited to 7800 rpm and can run a 6 inch spoiler with 2400 lbs car. The sanction this engine is going to be for is USRA Modifieds. I'd be running under the concept rules. Or i could put the 3 inch spoiler on and run 2550, this would allow me to run the roller cam and turn 8400 rpm.
ssregal39
Member
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:41 am
Location: Norfolk VA

Re: Spare parts engine build

Post by ssregal39 »

I see. interesting rules there.
150 pounds makes a difference.
Do they only tech some of the cars, top 5 or whatever?
user-612937456

Re: Spare parts engine build

Post by user-612937456 »

I like the 487X casting they do have a little better port untouched compared with the 462's although the compression may be the advantage over the little better port flow in this case. The 487X do have hardened exhaust seats, but with no work at all the 462's probably win out. Sure the 416's are good heads on a small Cube combo but you start limiting the rpm power as you increase the cubes. The 058 vortecs are restrictive nothing like the true vortec heads so these would be my last choice along with the emissions heads.

By the way the 487X's (significantly better than a plane 487 casting) it may have some value to a restoration as they are rare they were only installed on the 1971 Z28 350 and I think the corvette 330 Hp engine in 71. It was a performance/emission Hybrid compromise.

I still stand on my recommendation to pony up a couple Hundred and get an optimal camshaft for your application. I think the camshaft is likened to going to the doctor when he says you need thyroid medicine. You go home and look in the cabinet and you see Ibuprofen, an antihistamine, and some Pamprin and reason with yourself I think I will use the Pamprin telling yourself its close enough. Although I can do better with the prescription this will be alright? Every component is probably ok if you get the perimeters in the ball park. But on a camshaft as little as 3-4 degree's can make the difference of 40 Horsepower or more. The camshaft event timing is the most precision and critical component in your build, second to your intake port capabilities.

Selecting the best compromize from a few surplus camshafts is something I cringe at but that's just me.
phantomfab
Member
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:12 am
Location:

Re: Spare parts engine build

Post by phantomfab »

gvx wrote:I like the 487X casting they do have a little better port untouched compared with the 462's although the compression may be the advantage over the little better port flow in this case. The 487X do have hardened exhaust seats, but with no work at all the 462's probably win out. Sure the 416's are good heads on a small Cube combo but you start limiting the rpm power as you increase the cubes. The 058 vortecs are restrictive nothing like the true vortec heads so these would be my last choice along with the emissions heads.

By the way the 487X's (significantly better than a plane 487 casting) it may have some value to a restoration as they are rare they were only installed on the 1971 Z28 350 and I think the corvette 330 Hp engine in 71. It was a performance/emission Hybrid compromise.

I still stand on my recommendation to pony up a couple Hundred and get an optimal camshaft for your application. I think the camshaft is likened to going to the doctor when he says you need thyroid medicine. You go home and look in the cabinet and you see Ibuprofen, an antihistamine, and some Pamprin and reason with yourself I think I will use the Pamprin telling yourself its close enough. Although I can do better with the prescription this will be alright? Every component is probably ok if you get the perimeters in the ball park. But on a camshaft as little as 3-4 degree's can make the difference of 40 Horsepower or more. The camshaft event timing is the most precision and critical component in your build, second to your intake port capabilities.

Selecting the best compromize from a few surplus camshafts is something I cringe at but that's just me.
Thank you for the reply on the heads. You have them in about the same order as i thought they would be in. I'm aware the 058 is a junk casting compared to the 062 or 906. And to go further on the cam i get that i should probably spend the money on it as i do some prescriptions ive skipped in the past lol the reason being is I'm on a really tight budget and all my money i spend goes towards my bmod. The reason for me keeping a factory casting on this engine is i also run a grand national/superstock that mandates a factory head which is also a reason for the camshaft being something I'm not as picky with since if i had a cam cut I'd like it to perform the best for one car or another, theres a 1000 lbs difference and therefore I'd want more low end in one car and more top end in the other. yes I'm aware that out of the cams i'm picking I may not be 100 percent happy with it but atleast I won't buy one then be unhappy in one car or the other. I've done that when i was running a purestock and went to the bmods 4 weeks into a season. I ended up putting a really high gear in the car cause i had good torque but was a little lacking in the top end. Later degreeing the cam a little different helped but I actually ended up putting an off the shelf cam in and liked it more. The custom grind was awesome in the pure stock but it just wasnt there in the bmod. I know this may seem off topic but it was my personal reason for not going with a custom grind, other than my tight budget of course.
user-612937456

Re: Spare parts engine build

Post by user-612937456 »

phantomfab wrote: my personal reason for not going with a custom grind, other than my tight budget of course.
I seem to have ranked thinks but this should have been #1 in the priorities I totally understand
phantomfab
Member
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:12 am
Location:

Re: Spare parts engine build

Post by phantomfab »

gvx wrote:
phantomfab wrote: my personal reason for not going with a custom grind, other than my tight budget of course.
I seem to have ranked thinks but this should have been #1 in the priorities I totally understand
Yeah, that is the number one reason for me not getting a custom grind. I listed the best reason last haha
phantomfab
Member
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:12 am
Location:

Re: Spare parts engine build

Post by phantomfab »

I really do appreciate the replies from you guys. I do have a question though. If the pistons are rated at 11:1 with a 62 or 64 cc head like the double humps, then what would my compression be around with the 75cc head? I'm not sure of the dome cc.
Post Reply