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copper radiator vs aluminium engine

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Re: copper radiator vs aluminium engine

Postby joe 90 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:13 am

You're trying to invent a problem out of nothing.

Do you know that there's always been cars come off the production line that have aluminium heads as well as copper radiators?
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Re: copper radiator vs aluminium engine

Postby Kevin Johnson » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:35 am

joe 90 wrote:You're trying to invent a problem out of nothing.

Do you know that there's always been cars come off the production line that have aluminium heads as well as copper radiators?


https://www.sawater.com.au/

Don't use Adelaide tap water to form the basis of a coolant. Buy distilled water.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aside: when I was selling chemicals in California a drought forced utilities to draw from alternate sources. One customer started having things grow in his product because of mold spore contamination. What comes out of the tap can vary greatly -- just ask the people in Flint, Michigan.
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Re: copper radiator vs aluminium engine

Postby crazyman » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:18 am

Copper radiator with brass, solder, aluminum block, more than likely MLS head gaskets. There will definitely be electrolysis. A common ground should help short the current.
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Re: copper radiator vs aluminium engine

Postby Paul Rig » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:40 am

crazyman wrote:Copper radiator with brass, solder, aluminum block, more than likely MLS head gaskets. There will definitely be electrolysis. A common ground should help short the current.

Im hoping common ground will sort it out.
Im not sure zinc will help in a closed system with alloy, unless somebody knows better.

When I had the motor installed and running stock internals for the basic ecu setup.
I had the radiator pretty much held in by force of the rubber hoses
and signs of rust/scale in the engine waterways where there after 3months.
that was with pure water and 20% coolant concentrate.

Im pretty sure that had to do with me not being able to purge all the air out, as well as the radiator


PS Adelaide tap water. Its definitely got its own flavor
So have we matched mpg of a ford model T yet?

Mk1 Ford Escort
Duratec 2.0 itb's, dry sump, Adaptronic ECU,
RX7 serries5 gearbox, RN25 LSD.
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Re: copper radiator vs aluminium engine

Postby Geoff2 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:55 am

So what is 'pure' water? Distilled? De-ionised? Demineralised?

I have run an alum radiator for 15 yrs now, with both iron & alum heads on the engine. I have a ground strap from the battery neg terminal to the radiator. I had the rad custom made & had a lug welded to it specifically for use as a grounding lug. With the rad & engine at the same potential, no chance of electrolysis.

From day one, I have used the pre-mixed Clean Team coolant that has the CORRECT water in it. Available from Coles, Woollies, Big W for about $7 for a 5L container.
No sign of corrosion anywhere in the engine or rad after 15 yrs. I do not believe a sacrificial anode is reqd if you use pre-mixed coolant that uses the chemically correct water.
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Re: copper radiator vs aluminium engine

Postby Kevin Johnson » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:24 am

As a practical matter, distilled water is typically available in grocery stores as it is used in irons and steam cleaners. DI water is great but I saw that mainly in labs.
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Re: copper radiator vs aluminium engine

Postby joe 90 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:45 pm

crazyman wrote:Copper radiator with brass, solder, aluminum block, more than likely MLS head gaskets. There will definitely be electrolysis. A common ground should help short the current.



A common ground will actually make things worse.
It's the flow of electric current that is part of the electrolytic cell.
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Re: copper radiator vs aluminium engine

Postby Geoff2 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:33 am

A common ground will not make it worse, as the rad, engine & battery are all at the same potential: minus 12v. For current to flow, or electrolysis to occur, a potential difference [ voltage ] is reqd.
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Re: copper radiator vs aluminium engine

Postby Paul Rig » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:43 am

thanks Geoff I was hoping that was correct.

and FYI I was using lab water type3 Autoclave . We had it where I worked so I took 40ltrs of it.
We were using it on some cheap chinese lead acid battery's that the company bought for locomotive's that were destroying themselves quickly.
I will use distilled once I go through that with a quality concentrate.
So have we matched mpg of a ford model T yet?

Mk1 Ford Escort
Duratec 2.0 itb's, dry sump, Adaptronic ECU,
RX7 serries5 gearbox, RN25 LSD.
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Re: copper radiator vs aluminium engine

Postby Geoff2 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:03 am

Paul,

I am in Sydney, hence the reference to locally known shops. According to Calsonic Australia, radiator manufacturer, the 'correct ' water recommended is RO [Reverse Osmosis ] or Demineralised.

That is why I asked about your 'pure' water comment. As I said previously, I think you re better off using pre-mixed coolant rather concentrate, as the PMed stuff will have the correct water. Price wise, I have found it works out about the same.
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Re: copper radiator vs aluminium engine

Postby Geoff2 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:07 am

Should have added...........have many mates using the Clean Team coolant & over many years [ Aussie company too ] . I remember replacing the water pump [ bad bearing ] in a mates 440 Chrysler; it had a stamped steel impeller & owner had been using CT for a few years. The impeller looked new, like somebody had painted it gun metal grey, not a speck of rust.
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Re: copper radiator vs aluminium engine

Postby joe 90 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:06 pm

Geoff2 wrote:A common ground will not make it worse, as the rad, engine & battery are all at the same potential: minus 12v. For current to flow, or electrolysis to occur, a potential difference [ voltage ] is reqd.


You've got no idea about electrolysis.

Take a lump of iron, take a lump of aluminium.
Put them both into an electrolyte (ionised water)
As in drop them both into a bucket of water

If the 2 lumps of metal are connected to each other electrically (like bolted together in an engine), they'll corrode quicker, well one will.

The "fix" is to remove the electrolyte, as in de ionise it. That's the purpose of the anti freeze,

Sacrificial electrodes are for boats.
Boats are different.
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Re: copper radiator vs aluminium engine

Postby emsvitil » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:37 pm

I can fix small leaks on a copper/brass radiator myself with my plumbers torch..........
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Re: copper radiator vs aluminium engine

Postby Paul Rig » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:35 am

joe 90 wrote:
Geoff2 wrote:A common ground will not make it worse, as the rad, engine & battery are all at the same potential: minus 12v. For current to flow, or electrolysis to occur, a potential difference [ voltage ] is reqd.


You've got no idea about electrolysis.

Take a lump of iron, take a lump of aluminium.
Put them both into an electrolyte (ionised water)
As in drop them both into a bucket of water

If the 2 lumps of metal are connected to each other electrically (like bolted together in an engine), they'll corrode quicker, well one will.

The "fix" is to remove the electrolyte, as in de ionise it. That's the purpose of the anti freeze,

Sacrificial electrodes are for boats.
Boats are different.


sorry Joe but what Geoff is saying about grounding the potential is correct.
I will reference what I said before about how I had my radiator isolated and I was having this problem in under 3months.
What both of you are saying about using premix coolant is also correct.

regards Paul
So have we matched mpg of a ford model T yet?

Mk1 Ford Escort
Duratec 2.0 itb's, dry sump, Adaptronic ECU,
RX7 serries5 gearbox, RN25 LSD.
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Re: copper radiator vs aluminium engine

Postby Geoff2 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:51 am

Joe,
What I said was one 100% correct. If the parts are at the same potential [ minus 12v in this case, but it wouldn't matter if it was + 300v ], there is no potential difference [ voltage ] present & therefore they are not 'electrically' connected. Therefore: with zero voltage, there is no current flow, no ion transfer/corrosion.
Maybe you are confusing electrolysis with galvanic action.
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