Intake manifold design comparison

[BradH]

Here are pics of two different intakes currently available for the BB Mopar using standard-port (not Max Wedge) heads. The Edelbrock Victor came out years ago, whereas the Trick Flow intake is a recent introduction to go along w/ TF's first cylinder heads for the BB Mopar market.

At first glance they're very similar, enough that my first impression was that TF basically "cloned" the Victor. However, after looking at them more closely, I see differences in the plenum shapes & the sweep of the runners (e.g., the Victor has a more direct path to the cylinder head intake port, but the TF intake has a more gentle turn as it approaches the head.

At some point I may have an opportunity to compare them, and I currently own a Victor (well, two, actually). However, I'm curious if those of you who are more in-the-know as far as intake manifold design & trends see "things" when comparing them which would lead you to believe one piece would work better -- or simply differently? -- than the other.

Trick Flow "Track Heat" intake pics first...

Thanks,
Brad

2_Trick_Flow_Track_Heat_440_intake_sm.jpg

3_Trick_Flow_Track_Heat_440_intake_plenum_sm_2.jpg

4_Trick Flow Track Heat 440 intake_plenum_xl.jpg

[BradH]

Victor pics "out of the box"...

5.1_Edelbrock_Victor_440_OOB.jpg

5.2_Edelbrock_Victor_440_OOB.jpg

6_Victor_440_stock_plenum.jpg

[BradH]

Last pic is of the mod I've been doing to the Victor plenum that's shown an 8-10 HP improvement on a 600 HP build compared to an unmodified Victor...

7_Victor_440_w_plenum_mod.JPG

[mag2555]

It comes down to having both Manifolds to find what works best for your combo.
I like the taller and better line of sight that the Victor has, but I have used the Older Indy Manifold with good results to 730 to 750 hp.

[Walter R. Malik]

As regularly available manifolds go, there are also the Holley -14, the Mopar Performance M1 and the INDY options.

Every one of those will run the best on whatever application suits them the most.

[turbo2256b]

Biggest difference can really only be measured on a flow bench attached to a cylinder head. There are guidelines I used designing intakes over the years.

[67RS502]

Looks like the plenum may be better on the trickflow, longer front to back,
which should lead to better runner design,
but runners are better on the Victor... go figure.

[andyf]

I ran the Victor 383 and the Trick Flow on my low deck 470 engine. After the dyno test I sold the Victor and kept the Trick Flow.

[mag2555]

From what I have seen with most Victors for any motor is that they need a atleast a 1 inch spacer to pick up Plenum volume, but there longer runners work better in the TQ dept on street strip stuff that is not all out!

[BradH]

I ran the Victor 383 and the Trick Flow on my low deck 470 engine. After the dyno test I sold the Victor and kept the Trick Flow.

I remember you saying this, but forgot to ask the details, e.g. if it was a true intake vs intake only comparison, where the TF intake performed better, etc. Any additional info you can provide?

[BradH]

From what I have seen with most Victors for any motor is that they need a atleast a 1 inch spacer to pick up Plenum volume, but there longer runners work better in the TQ dept on street strip stuff that is not all out!

I can post some dyno testing I did at Porter Racing Heads (S. Burlington VT) with an OOB Victor vs the modified one shown above, including adding 1" open spacers to both.

[ZEOHSIX]

Last pic is of the mod I've been doing to the Victor plenum that's shown an 8-10 HP improvement on a 600 HP build compared to an unmodified Victor...

7_Victor_440_w_plenum_mod.JPG

Looking at this picture makes me want to grab a die grinder and smooth the casting flash I see at the base of the #2/8 port runner floors at the dividers....might be a optical illusion....last single plane I had on RB was when I swapped out a Six Pack intake for a TM-7....guess I'm dating myself

Plenum and runners look better on the TF manifold along with casting quality.......

[turbo2256b]

Hears something to think about. Flow testing some std square bore single plane intakes added a 4500 adapter which added more CFM than the same intake with 4500 flange by 20 to 30 cfm.
Surprising is most intakes dont even come close to the CFMs ported factory heads can put out.

[BradH]

From what I have seen with most Victors for any motor is that they need a atleast a 1 inch spacer to pick up Plenum volume, but there longer runners work better in the TQ dept on street strip stuff that is not all out!

I can post some dyno testing I did at Porter Racing Heads (S. Burlington VT) with an OOB Victor vs the modified one shown above, including adding 1" open spacers to both.

Basic combination: 440 + .060"; 10.7 cr, MP Stage VI heads (~305/235 @ .600"), Comp "XX" solid 266/266 @ .050", .600"/.600" (1.5), 108 + 4, , Street Hemi pan w/ ½” pickup, Hooker 2" Super Comps w/ 3.5" x 18" collector extension, 35 degrees total advance, Valvoline 20w50 racing oil.

Tests:
A. Stock Edelbrock Victor intake, BG Gold Claw 825 (1.425" venturi, 1.75" butterfly, downleg booster), 1.5/1.5 rockers
B. Added 1" open spacer
C. Switched to 1.6 intake rockers
D. Switched to plenum-ported Edelbrock Victor, but removed the 1" spacer

TEST ----- A ------------- B -------------- C ------------- D
RPM -- TQ / HP ----- TQ / HP ----- TQ / HP ----- TQ / HP
3500 -- 479 / 319 ---- 485 / 323 ---- 481 / 321 ---- 480 / 320
3600 -- 478 / 327 ---- 484 / 332 ---- 481 / 330 ---- 479 / 329
3700 -- 482 / 340 ---- 482 / 339 ---- 480 / 338 ---- 478 / 337
3800 -- 492 / 356 ---- 488 / 353 ---- 483 / 349 ---- 482 / 349
3900 -- 505 / 375 ---- 501 / 372 ---- 492 / 365 ---- 488 / 363
4000 -- 525 / 400 ---- 518 / 394 ---- 513 / 391 ---- 504 / 384
4100 -- 540 / 421 ---- 534 / 417 ---- 526 / 410 ---- 527 / 412
4200 -- 546 / 437 ---- 544 / 435 ---- 537 / 429 ---- 538 / 430
4300 -- 552 / 452 ---- 554 / 454 ---- 548 / 448 ---- 547 / 448
4400 -- 558 / 468 ---- 555 / 465 ---- 549 / 460 ---- 553 / 464
4500 -- 563 / 483 ---- 563 / 483 ---- 556 / 476 ---- 559 / 479
4600 -- 567 / 496 ---- 559 / 489 ---- 560 / 490 ---- 563 / 493
4700 -- 564 / 505 ---- 564 / 505 ---- 566 / 506 ---- 567 / 507
4800 -- 565 / 517 ---- 565 / 516 ---- 566 / 517 ---- 568 / 519
4900 -- 563 / 525 ---- 565 / 527 ---- 568 / 530 ---- 572 / 534
5000 -- 562 / 535 ---- 565 / 538 ---- 565 / 538 ---- 570 / 543
5100 -- 564 / 548 ---- 564 / 548 ---- 565 / 549 ---- 568 / 551
5200 -- 561 / 555 ---- 561 / 555 ---- 564 / 559 ---- 565 / 559
5300 -- 554 / 559 ---- 561 / 566 ---- 560 / 565 ---- 564 / 570
5400 -- 548 / 564 ---- 555 / 571 ---- 556 / 572 ---- 559 / 575
5500 -- 548 / 574 ---- 549 / 575 ---- 549 / 575 ---- 556 / 582
5600 -- 535 / 570 ---- 540 / 576 ---- 540 / 575 ---- 548 / 585
5700 -- 530 / 575 ---- 535 / 580 ---- 535 / 581 ---- 540 / 586
5800 -- 523 / 577 ---- 525 / 580 ---- 533 / 588 ---- 535 / 591
5900 -- 523 / 587 ---- 521 / 585 ---- 523 / 588 ---- 529 / 595
6000 -- 516 / 589 ---- 518 / 591 ---- 520 / 594 ---- 529 / 605
6100 -- 509 / 592 ---- 512 / 595 ---- 513 / 596 ---- 522 / 607
6200 -- 501 / 591 ---- 509 / 600 ---- 512 / 604 ---- 517 / 611
6300 -- 497 / 596 ---- 500 / 600 ---- 504 / 604 ---- 511 / 613
6400 -- 490 / 598 ---- 496 / 604 ---- 497 / 605 ---- 504 / 614
6500 -- 482 / 597 ---- 485 / 600 ---- 488 / 604 ---- 494 / 612
6600 -- 473 / 594 ---- 473 / 594 ---- 477 / 600 ---- 485 / 610
6700 -- 461 / 588 ---- 463 / 590 ---- 472 / 602 ---- 475 / 606
6800 -- 451 / 583 ---- 455 / 590 ---- 461 / 596 ---- 466 / 604
6900 -- 444 / 583 ---- 449 / 590 ---- 454 / 596 ---- 457 / 600
7000 -- 437 / 582 ---- 442 / 589 ---- 441 / 588 ---- 451 / 601

We did a lot more tests, but those are the ones that highlight the improvements seen in the intake mods in the plenum only (not even port-matched).

Finally, test D vs. E is the difference from adding a 1" open spacer on the plenum-ported Victor:

TEST ----- D ------------- E ----
RPM -- TQ / HP ----- TQ / HP -
3500 -- 480 / 320 ---- 481 / 321
3600 -- 479 / 329 ---- 479 / 328
3700 -- 478 / 337 ---- 480 / 338
3800 -- 482 / 349 ---- 482 / 349
3900 -- 488 / 363 ---- 495 / 367
4000 -- 504 / 384 ---- 511 / 389
4100 -- 527 / 412 ---- 531 / 415
4200 -- 538 / 430 ---- 545 / 436
4300 -- 547 / 448 ---- 548 / 449
4400 -- 553 / 464 ---- 559 / 469
4500 -- 559 / 479 ---- 557 / 477
4600 -- 563 / 493 ---- 565 / 495
4700 -- 567 / 507 ---- 564 / 505
4800 -- 568 / 519 ---- 572 / 523
4900 -- 572 / 534 ---- 569 / 530
5000 -- 570 / 543 ---- 573 / 545
5100 -- 568 / 551 ---- 570 / 554
5200 -- 565 / 559 ---- 574 / 569
5300 -- 564 / 570 ---- 569 / 574
5400 -- 559 / 575 ---- 561 / 577
5500 -- 556 / 582 ---- 556 / 582
5600 -- 548 / 585 ---- 551 / 588
5700 -- 540 / 586 ---- 545 / 592
5800 -- 535 / 591 ---- 542 / 599
5900 -- 529 / 595 ---- 533 / 599
6000 -- 529 / 605 ---- 530 / 605
6100 -- 522 / 607 ---- 523 / 607
6200 -- 517 / 611 ---- 518 / 612
6300 -- 511 / 613 ---- 513 / 615
6400 -- 504 / 614 ---- 501 / 611
6500 -- 494 / 612 ---- 495 / 613
6600 -- 485 / 610 ---- 485 / 609
6700 -- 475 / 606 ---- 476 / 608
6800 -- 466 / 604 ---- 475 / 615
6900 -- 457 / 600 ---- 463 / 608
7000 -- 451 / 601 ---- 455 / 607

Test "D", only using 1.5/1.5 rockers, was the setup I had on the car when it ran 10.52 @ 126.5 MPH at 3755#s in full street trim (exhaust to rear bumper, pump 93 E10 blend, DOT drag radials, etc.) because there wasn't enough room under the hood to fit a spacer. I figured that was a 610-ish HP combination.

I also had a ported MP M1 4150 on hand during both the dyno & track testing. The ported M1 w/ a 1" open spacer & 1.6 intake rockers made a little better peak torque than the OOB Victor, and peaked at about 610 HP, but dropped off quicker above that. On the track, the modified Victor with no spacer (hood clearance issue) was still quicker & faster than the ported M1 w/ a 1" HVH Super Sucker spacer; the latter intake & spacer combination ran a best of 10.57 @ 126.0, right at .05 ET and .5 MPH slower. The car ran a 4500-flash converter; the torque advantage of the M1 didn't translate to any improvement on the track, but the Victor's increased HP at higher RPM did.

[BradH]

Hears something to think about. Flow testing some std square bore single plane intakes added a 4500 adapter which added more CFM than the same intake with 4500 flange by 20 to 30 cfm.
Surprising is most intakes dont even come close to the CFMs ported factory heads can put out.

Yeah, I've done flow testing of some of these same intakes on a couple of different heads. One thing I've figured out is that the flow bench CFM of an intake -- either stand-alone or when mounted on a head -- doesn't tell you the whole story about how it's going to work on the car. It's no different than having higher flowing heads that don't result in on-track improvements, because of other factors that need to be taken into account.

EDIT: In case anyone thinks I'm rooting for the Victor intake because I own a couple already, I'm not. Picking up a TF intake would be no problem, but I'm trying to get a feel for whether there is something inherently better about the TF design that would show improvements over what I've already found w/ work I've done on the Victors.