2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

User avatar
MadBill
Guru
Guru
Posts: 13715
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:41 am
Location: The Great White North

Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by MadBill » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:21 pm

Carnut1 wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:12 pm
Very happy, Now if we could just get some thin head gaskets donated to fix that miserable quench I would be thrilled! I know, I am a pain. I will add that the larger cam and fixed quench with some timing runs will cut deep into that stock block's max strength limits. Thanks, Charlie
0.015" SBC gaskets are < $10 ea. from some sources...
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.

travis
Expert
Expert
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:31 am

Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by travis » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:28 pm

MadBill wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:21 pm
Carnut1 wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:12 pm
Very happy, Now if we could just get some thin head gaskets donated to fix that miserable quench I would be thrilled! I know, I am a pain. I will add that the larger cam and fixed quench with some timing runs will cut deep into that stock block's max strength limits. Thanks, Charlie
0.015" SBC gaskets are < $10 ea. from some sources...
I’m not sure how your going to make those work on an SBF :wink:

User avatar
MadBill
Guru
Guru
Posts: 13715
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:41 am
Location: The Great White North

Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by MadBill » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:52 pm

My finger's on autopilot... :oops:
Fewer bolt holes, fewer choices, more $$...it ain't easy being Ford. :)
The thinnest I could find in a quick search is 0.027".
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.

David Vizard
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:19 pm

Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by David Vizard » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:10 pm

travis wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:05 pm
I’m curious why the 268/220 .512” lobe, instead of the 268/218 (or 222) .544” lobe Mike has at his disposal?
Jesus - don't let Mike know but that lobe i quoted might have been the CC one on my desk not Mikes - --- ehhh - 76 next B/day!!!
DV
David Vizard Small Group Performance Seminars - held about every 2 months. My shop or yours. Contact for seminar deails - davidvizardseminar@gmail.com for details.

travis
Expert
Expert
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:31 am

Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by travis » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:33 pm

David Vizard wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:10 pm
travis wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:05 pm
I’m curious why the 268/220 .512” lobe, instead of the 268/218 (or 222) .544” lobe Mike has at his disposal?
Jesus - don't let Mike know but that lobe i quoted might have been the CC one on my desk not Mikes - --- ehhh - 76 next B/day!!!
DV
Don’t feel bad...I’ve been having plenty of “senior” moments lately. I’ll be 47 in a few weeks :oops:

I was just curious is all. I’ve got one of Mikes 264/268, 218/222, .544/.544 hydraulic rollers here for a 351w I’m putting together for one of my trucks. I think it will do ok

travis
Expert
Expert
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:31 am

Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by travis » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:37 pm

MadBill wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:52 pm
My finger's on autopilot... :oops:
Fewer bolt holes, fewer choices, more $$...it ain't easy being Ford. :)
The thinnest I could find in a quick search is 0.027".
I was just giving you a hard time lol

Cometic is about your only choice for thin sbf head gaskets...and they certainly don’t give them away

User avatar
CamKing
Guru
Guru
Posts: 8659
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:05 pm
Location: Denver, NC
Contact:

Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by CamKing » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:39 am

travis wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:05 pm
I’m curious why the 268/220 .512” lobe, instead of the 268/218 (or 222) .544” lobe Mike has at his disposal?
It will be a 268/222, .544" on 110
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
(704)489-2449

David Vizard
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:19 pm

Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by David Vizard » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:39 am

CamKing wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:39 am
travis wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:05 pm
I’m curious why the 268/220 .512” lobe, instead of the 268/218 (or 222) .544” lobe Mike has at his disposal?
It will be a 268/222, .544" on 110
Thanks for the correction Mikey.
DV
David Vizard Small Group Performance Seminars - held about every 2 months. My shop or yours. Contact for seminar deails - davidvizardseminar@gmail.com for details.

Carnut1
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3991
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:32 pm
Location: Melbourne fl.

Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by Carnut1 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:45 am

CamKing wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:39 am
travis wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:05 pm
I’m curious why the 268/220 .512” lobe, instead of the 268/218 (or 222) .544” lobe Mike has at his disposal?
It will be a 268/222, .544" on 110
Will that be a hft or hyd roller? Thanks, Charlie
Servedio Cylinder Head Development
631-816-4911
9:00am - 9:00pm EST

David Vizard
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:19 pm

Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by David Vizard » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:41 am

Carnut1 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:45 am
CamKing wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:39 am
travis wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:05 pm
I’m curious why the 268/220 .512” lobe, instead of the 268/218 (or 222) .544” lobe Mike has at his disposal?
It will be a 268/222, .544" on 110
Will that be a hft or hyd roller? Thanks, Charlie
Hyd. roller.

Just had a call from Mike - good news - cam will be shipping today.
DV
David Vizard Small Group Performance Seminars - held about every 2 months. My shop or yours. Contact for seminar deails - davidvizardseminar@gmail.com for details.

Carnut1
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3991
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:32 pm
Location: Melbourne fl.

Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by Carnut1 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:59 am

David Vizard wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:41 am
Carnut1 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:45 am
CamKing wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:39 am


It will be a 268/222, .544" on 110
Will that be a hft or hyd roller? Thanks, Charlie



Hyd. roller.

Just had a call from Mike - good news - cam will be shipping today.
DV

Nice! I guess 390hp with DV/Charlie E7's with fixed quench and 32 degrees timing. Thanks, Charlie
Servedio Cylinder Head Development
631-816-4911
9:00am - 9:00pm EST

David Vizard
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:19 pm

Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by David Vizard » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:59 pm

Continuing my last post from page 36 which dealt with the discharge coefficients and how the curves can give a good insight ito where you need to make you next mods lets move on to the subject of port velocity. This is something that is almost universally accepted as important but very few head porters seem to have any idea what the numbers should be or, if they do, to pass them on.

Well here is some data that will fix that situation.

Take a look at the IOP graph shown below. Here are the mean velocity figures for RBJ Racing's head versus the stock head.

The thin lines are the stock head and the thick lines the RBJ head. Blue is intake and red ex.. What is the target velocity we should shoot for?
The way the IOP program deals with this we should be targeting about 290 - 330 in the intake and 300 to 350 on the exhaust. So lets see where we are.

First the intake.
As can be seen the velocity went up by a goodly amount. At the top of the lift range used by our baby 260 degree cam the mean port velocity on John's heads were up by over 26%. So the intake ports had a lot more flow and at any given lift, and more velocity. That accounts for the excellent torque output and the good top end power achieved without have to turn excessive RP{M.

As for the exhaust we can see the flow was gained at the expense of velocity.This indicates the port is too big and a more efficient but smaller CSA port needs to be sought after. That reduction on velocity means the scavenging effect is reduced and that can have a measurable effect on torque throughout the rpm range but more so at the low rpm used in street driving.

The increase in torque due to better scavenging at O/L and ramming at the end of the induction stroke is due to the increased velocity and air mass involved. In other words the kinetic energy it contains that, when slowed by a resistance can be turned into a higher pressure energy to better fill the cylinders.

and now we have broached the seemingly touchy subject of port energy I will show what the difference is between a stock head and RBJ Johns modified head. I will also answer the question of whether the increased exhaust flow was of grater benefit the the loss of velocity a detriment. Watch out for the flack and my next post.

DV
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
David Vizard Small Group Performance Seminars - held about every 2 months. My shop or yours. Contact for seminar deails - davidvizardseminar@gmail.com for details.

Casper393W
Pro
Pro
Posts: 423
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:18 am

Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by Casper393W » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:17 pm

Well I'll get the Popcorn and kick back! This is very good info... Keep it coming

randy331
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3069
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:30 pm
Location: N.W. MO.

Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by randy331 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:15 am

RTercovich wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:12 pm
One problem with software programs is that the program is only as smart as the person that designed it or the intelligence in which he/she chose to incorporate with the program. The flow bench falls into a "similar" category to a certain extent because tests are steady state and we all know that's a completely different story in a live engine. Programs and benches are great "basic" tools for "general guidelines" but if you are searching for more, you must dig deeper and twist your brain in a knot to find your finish line.
Guess it depends on where you currently stand on the engines you build.

Randy

68corvette
Member
Member
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:33 pm
Location: Finland / Hyvinkaa

Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by 68corvette » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:44 am

Which of the heads had the biggest port energy?

Post Reply