2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

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David Vizard
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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by David Vizard » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:47 pm

jcisworthy wrote:So these heads are going to be dyno tested against stock heads? What about ported heads from someone else?
Well this post from Mr. Jcisworthy started the ball rolling along a bumpy road at first but we got things smoothed out. The original problem here was who was going to cover the costs of dynoing the heads. But here Terry Walters stepped in and said 'while we are testing 6 sets of heads we may as well do 7 sets'. That's not only good for me but also ST forum members. While TW is helping us might be good to visit see if there is anything he might have to offer ST folk in the way of services and parts.

But that aside my main concern about testing someone else's heads was the possibility of getting a pair of lemons and all that would do was waste my time. As it happened I found, after a lengthy phone call, that I was dealing with a pro so I agreed we would go forward on this.

Let me remind you of the plot here. Our Mr.Jcisworthy wanted to establish whether or not a set of heads ported with the aid of my IOP flow bench program would be any better than a set ported by an experienced porter working to his own methods.

Well the heads arrived a few days ago and although they would not win any glamour contests, were well engineered. In short I liked what I saw.

At this point our intrepid head porter and I spoke over the phone, again at length. What I needed to do was to establish his line of thought that went into the architecture of this porting job.

Esentially it went like this. John (Mr.Jcisworthy) works along the lines of 'no metal removal unless the flow bench shows a measurable gain'. Before starting on the heads I now have, he ran through some trial ports on a spare head. From what I understand this was partly practice and partly to evaluate what the biggest useful intake valve would be.

Those who have followed this thread through may just remember I was intent on installing 2 inch valves and quite a few of the 'Fordy guys' said that there was little or no benefit from such a move. Guys you were right! The ported E7TE heads that I did with Charlie (carnut 1) ended up with 1.97 intakes and that may well be a little over the top at that. John's heads came to me with a 1.9/1.6 valve combo. Along with bronze guides it was also cut for studs and guide plates.

OK, at this point it was flow bench time. Unless the heads cut the mustard here there would be no dyno time. The first job was to take all the relevant dimensions and input into the IOP (Induction Optimized Porting) program. This entailed cc'ing the ports, measuring the port center line length, port widths, heights and so on. With all that done it was flow bench time.

Well so as to avoid any worry to the contrary let me say the results are good but will totally fail to establish whether or not the concepts of port energy are relevant or not.

I will explain why in my next post after I have done the artwork for such.

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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by Carnut1 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:58 pm

David, If that is your new valve opener it looks like a nice design!

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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by David Vizard » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:27 am

Carnut1 wrote:David, If that is your new valve opener it looks like a nice design!

Yes - it takes just a second or so to go to the next lift point.

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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by David Vizard » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:48 pm

So here are the flow figs on the E7TE heads done by our friend Jcisworthy.

Let's have some comments from experts and novices alike as to the results shown here.

The thick lines are the after figs and the thin --- yes you guessed ----- are the before figs.
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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by Smoke ring » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:09 pm

Those are giant gains!
David or JC, is the high lift on the exhaust decreasing due to a trade off for low lift flow there? If so I think it's a good move, you need that blow down to be very effective. But if it was not a trade off what is going on there, the ssr is not working well at high lift?

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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by Carnut1 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:36 pm

Smoke ring wrote:Those are giant gains!
David or JC, is the high lift on the exhaust decreasing due to a trade off for low lift flow there? If so I think it's a good move, you need that blow down to be very effective. But if it was not a trade off what is going on there, the ssr is not working well at high lift?
I think it is a ssr issue. If the ssr is just right and speeds are in check flow will usually keep increasing. Thanks, Charlie

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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by jcisworthy » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:46 pm

The majority of what you see on the exhaust is from valve job, chamber deshrouding, port sizing and port shaping. There isnt much SSR to work with on these heads. The turn lays back real fast after the seat on this casting as do many factory cast iron heads.
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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by Carnut1 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:47 pm

jcisworthy wrote:The majority of what you see on the exhaust is from valve job, chamber deshrouding, port sizing and port shaping. There isnt much SSR to work with on these heads. The turn lays back real fast after the seat on this casting as do many factory cast iron heads.
JC, any idea why the dip on intake flows at .4"?

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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by jcisworthy » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:39 pm

Not really Charlie. Its probably something in the VJ and back cut relationship at that lift.

I had to fit these in with customer work so time was tight, I could not spend any more time on them. Other than the practice head I worked on before this pair I never got into these castings like this. I could do a little better job if I got into another set but I am happy with these heads and I am confident they will make good power.
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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by Carnut1 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:04 pm

jcisworthy wrote:Not really Charlie. Its probably something in the VJ and back cut relationship at that lift.

I had to fit these in with customer work so time was tight, I could not spend any more time on them. Other than the practice head I worked on before this pair I never got into these castings like this. I could do a little better job if I got into another set but I am happy with these heads and I am confident they will make good power.
I think you are right and I have done quite a few sets since the 90's and even though they only flowed 217/155 or so the 306's ran really hard and started to layover about 6800 rpm. So I have no doubt they will make a good number. Thanks, Charlie

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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by PRH » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:08 pm

.......let me say the results are good but will totally fail to establish whether or not the concepts of port energy are relevant or not.
If I had to guess, I'd say this is because they ended up exhibiting good port energy results, similar to the DV head...... So you didn't end up with two similarly flowing heads where one showed good port energy numbers, and one didn't.
Which I would imagine is what you'd really like to have for proof of concept.
Somewhat handy with a die grinder.

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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by David Vizard » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:39 pm

Carnut1 wrote:
jcisworthy wrote:The majority of what you see on the exhaust is from valve job, chamber deshrouding, port sizing and port shaping. There isnt much SSR to work with on these heads. The turn lays back real fast after the seat on this casting as do many factory cast iron heads.
JC, any idea why the dip on intake flows at .4"?
My ten cents worth here:- The uglier the castings are in stock form the greater chance of bigger variability one port to another!!!
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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by David Vizard » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:43 pm

PRH wrote:
.......let me say the results are good but will totally fail to establish whether or not the concepts of port energy are relevant or not.
If I had to guess, I'd say this is because they ended up exhibiting good port energy results, similar to the DV head...... So you didn't end up with two similarly flowing heads where one showed good port energy numbers, and one didn't.
Which I would imagine is what you'd really like to have for proof of concept.
PRH - congrats. You, as will be seen shortly, nailed it!!!
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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by PRH » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:06 pm

I've enjoyed this thread, along with the 289 head thread.

It would seem to me, that if the core heads you're starting with have relatively little "extra" wall thickness material to play with...... if two people with reasonable knowledge of porting and decent skills both tackle a port..... if you end up with similarly flowing ports...... You must have similarly shaped ports....... Since there just isn't enough material to allow for a big variation in port configuration without breaking through somewhere.

If you were starting with an aftermarket head that had ample material for experimentation, I can see where you could end up with similarly flowing ports with different configurations and volumes...... And quite possibly fairly different "port energy" results too.
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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by David Vizard » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:58 pm

Guy's I have just executed some files here and I mean 'excecuted'. I have over written the charts for jcisworthy's E7TE heads.

Here, after that screw up, is what I would have been reporting on. First quality of work- top notch here. I checked the valve seats for concentricity and the worst was 0.0006 out and that is a lot better than most I see in the shop. All the ports were consistant,

Head face machine work was really good. Detailing - like the paint job was well up to par.
In short I was pleased with the work John did here.

As for the flow tests and subsequent calculated factor I can say that the port energy and specific port energy was well up there.
At this point in time I see absolutly no reason stopping these heads from producing some great results.

As a test pertaining to the value of port energy this will fail as both competing heads are showinng similar charactoristics here.

Thanks John for your efforts here.

Just about to start assembly of some of the sets of heads for this big shootout.

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