2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

[mag2555]

If I was racing at a track and you shut down the track for 45 minutes or more due to blowing a motor to prove a point, I would be real pissed off and so would a bunch of other people !

If you go back and read my post before that one your commenting on , it's was a C6FE head that I ported, not a 70s E series head!

[EDC]

Not sure but I think E7's came out in '86 on the mustang. '85 was the high helix swirl port that was much hated on throttle body mustangs. E7' came with the multi port injection. They may have been on pickups before that.Thanks, Charlie

E7 = 1987+ heads....

Not the early seventies.

[EDC]

If I was racing at a track and you shut down the track for 45 minutes or more due to blowing a motor to prove a point, I would be real pissed off and so would a bunch of other people !

If you go back and read my post before that one your commenting on , it's was a C6FE head that I ported, not a 70s E series head!

Obviously you missed the "TITLE" of the thread in your diatribe.

As for shutting down the track... I have seen many more high tech, over-built, heads up "Outlaw" cars doing that than us "sportsman" racers. We'd run the entire class in ten to fifteen minutes whereas some "Outlaw" guy would take that long just to back up from his John Force burnout.

[vortecpro]

So here I am wading through the stuff for my current book project on SB Fords.

The question I am currently posing for the sample engine build chapter goes sort of like this:- You have a limited budget - do you build a truly streetable 306 (.030 over with stock crank) and equip it with some nice aluminum heads or do you invest that would be cylinder head money into a strocker kit and build a 347 and for heads, port a set of the commonly used E7TE factory heads.

There is obviously many combinations and comparisons without any constraints are difficult to make useful decisions from. To counter that the plan is to use the same cam lobes for both builds. Each of course would be ground on an appropriate LCA for the engine concerned.

At the end of the day just how well the 347 turns out to be depends largely on just how effectively the OE ports and chambers are cut. This is where the dilemma creeps in.

My experience porting E7TE heads has been along the lines of basic and safe (ie doesn’t find water). This has meant, at most, installing 1.94 intakes and 1.6 exhausts blending the seats into the port bowl, skinnying the guide boss some and there you go flow up from about 155 at 0.500 to about 190 with a similar increase on the exhaust. While hardly earth shattering a set of heads like this really do very noticably step up the output, especially if used with an appropriate cam.

At my laast November seminar Carnut1 (Charlie), who has had a lot of experience max porting the E7TE heads showed me where the air is in the ports and where the water is. Wouldn’t you know it there are plenty of places where air and water want to share the same spot. Charlie avoids most mishaps here by the use of a sonic tester – but the average home builder does not have a sonic tester.

As most of Ford fans are aware the SBF intake ports flow strongly favor the port wall on the cylinder centerline side. Cut there and you have air – cut a shade too much and you have both air and water. So here’s where the two heads are better than one deal. Using the knowledge gained from all the max ported iron heads Charlie has accumulated over the years and my strong wish not to find water lead to the production of an effective intake port that is far less likely to break into the water jacket. Shown in the photo below is the CD Mk 1 port (Charlie/Dave port) and the flow figs it delivered. The intake results were also helped by some minor chamber mods but the real potential of these heads, when expertly done, is not just the flow increase but also the higher port velocity generated at peak valve lift. In the case of our tests to ensure a strong torque curve the mean port velocity, as measured on the flow bench at 28 inches H2O, needs to be better than 290 ft/sec and torque is usually best when 300 to 320 ft/sec are achieved. Our test head here produced 305 ft/sec for the intake and 308 for the exhaust. What this means is that given the right valve events from the cam this build will make the most of every CFM it has available and thus produce results far better than are most often seen from home ported heads.

Of note here is that strong intake flow figures were delivered at valve lifts on the way up to the 0.500 that the port maxed out at. Those familiar with flow numbers versus valve sizes will note that these numbers are a little higher than most. How did we do it – well I guess you’ll have to wait until the books out on that one but meanwhile the story of porting SBF OE castings is not done with yet as future posts will reveal.

Lift In Ex
50 34.4 25.4
100 68 55
150 101 79
200 129 100
250 155 115
300 178 127
350 203 135
400 216 143
500 220 151
600 220 160
CC’s 142 51
Vel 305 308

Looking at the intake port photo you will see that rather than taking the port wall out the guide boss on that same side has been cut into thus giving it that slanted appearance. This is certainly not everything that can be achieved but it is relatively safe and not far off the 230 cfm that is often about the limit of a well ported head.

Charlie – thanks for your help here.

Here is the port – the high activity wall is on the left. Note the guide has been cut away more than usual and the vunerable to leaking port wall has been spared.

I always liked your production based builds in your books! I know for a fact the above air flow with a 1.780/1.45 valve will support 467 STP HP @ 7300 RPM on a 300 inch Ford.

[statsystems]

If I was racing at a track and you shut down the track for 45 minutes or more due to blowing a motor to prove a point, I would be real pissed off and so would a bunch of other people !

If you go back and read my post before that one your commenting on , it's was a C6FE head that I ported, not a 70s E series head!

Obviously you missed the "TITLE" of the thread in your diatribe.

As for shutting down the track... I have seen many more high tech, over-built, heads up "Outlaw" cars doing that than us "sportsman" racers. We'd run the entire class in ten to fifteen minutes whereas some "Outlaw" guy would take that long just to back up from his John Force burnout.

EDC, he did NOT say he was doing that with E7 heads. You made that point. I got what he said.

Slow down and READ what mag actually said, not what you think he said.

[David Vizard]

I have to dig out my info on Ford heads that I have done, but on a set of E7TZ heads I did some 18 years ago with a 1.94" valve I think I hit 245 cfm, and those heads then when on to make 350 hp on 289 with a solid flat Cam on a customers motor.

If you hit 245 cfm for a E7TE CASTING without hitting water that's close to miracle results. Now I am not saying it is impossible. Ocassionaly it happens - you strike gold and hit the port form that was needed right away instead of hunting for it for hundreds of hours. I have seen this happen but it is rare. In my 58 years of porting I have, sadly, had this happen just once.

Sooooo -any chance you could hack out just one cylinder and let me have a look at it????? (please!)

For my own part here most of what I do for iron SB Ford heads are the small chamber ones (52-55 cc) as used on the 289's. Can't remember the casting #'s involved but I have guy with a sonic tester who looks out for good castings for me to rework. My heads have won at least 7 championships in vintage racing in Europe in the last 13 years. I am just nudging 240 cfm at 0.625 lift (that's the valve lift used) along with over 300 ft /sec velocity on both intake and Ex.
Power for one of our flat tappet, stock rocker equipped, 12/1, two plane intake, Holley carbed 289 is just nudging 500 horses and 411 lbs-ft.

The racing over there in this class is very competitive and commands big money for wining parts. As results show the bottom line here is if a competitor does not have my cam and heads they are probably not going to win!
DV

[Walter R. Malik]

No, I haven't used those heads, but the statement still stands. Are the all the chambers the advertised size? What's the guide clearance like and are they straight? Valve face and stem, and seat run out? Surface finish? Oil returns? etc...

Not trying to argue Walter, and again, I have not used those heads. Just in my experience I've never been 100% happy with volume produced head out of the box, and that's not taking into account airflow issues ("gasket matching", seat transitions...).

I can also see you are just another pessimistic troll here but, I will answer your questions.
These are not meant to become a race car head but, a street/strip replacement head.

The castings have increased section thickness and are machined to O.E.M. quality; they should be viewed as such.
High temperature copper/steel exhaust seats; high strength steel intake seats
The steel valve guide clearance is .0018", (+ or - .0001") on the exhaust and .0014", (+ or - .0001" on the intake; straight as humanly possible for any O.E.M. head.
Chambers are 64cc's; (+ or - 1cc).
The valve job is almost as perfect as an O.E.M. head can be and is an O.E.M. type valve job; 3 angles on the seat an 1 on the valve.
The valves are race quality stainless with pro-flow type stems.
The valve springs come from Comp Cams and are the "pickled" bee-hive #26918 springs.
retainers are steel with machined valve locks.
In this form; their minimum flow is 240 cfm @.550" on the intake side and 170 cfm @.500" on the exhaust side.

They are a direct replacement, "bolt down" type valve train, aluminum head.

You will find no better value and "bang for the buck" anywhere at only a RETAIL price of $625.00 each.
The 9.0/1 compression 302 crate motor from Ford Racing will easily make 345 horsepower with that "crappy" .480" lift, B303 camshaft and O.E.M. production F.I. Intake Manifold.

I certainly am not a "shill" for Ford Racing however, I will call a "spade a spade".

Personally, I have used at least a 50 of those or X307 heads which have smaller 58cc combustion chambers.

[mag2555]

David, the only Mule head Ford castings I have here right now are Boss Cleveland, but the owner of the Car may still be in metro NY area and or the engine builder may have taken pictures of the head before he slapped them together that I maybe able to get a hold of.
As far as the 350 hp the 289 made, that was on the engine builders dyno which was not a superflow or such top shelf dyno, but that's what he passed along to me.
Anyone here got a C6FE casting to donate?

[Calypso]

My heads have won at least 7 championships in vintage racing in Europe in the last 13 years. I am just nudging 240 cfm at 0.625 lift (that's the valve lift used) along with over 300 ft /sec velocity on both intake and Ex.
Power for one of our flat tappet, stock rocker equipped, 12/1, two plane intake, Holley carbed 289 is just nudging 500 horses and 411 lbs-ft.

The racing over there in this class is very competitive and commands big money for wining parts. As results show the bottom line here is if a competitor does not have my cam and heads they are probably not going to win!
DV

Sorry for the off topic question... Which series/class are they running? Have 3 buddies running 2 historic mustangs and one Falcon locally. One of the guys even has a European championship from couple of years back and later sold his winning Falcon to the states. Sounds like they might be underpowered in the 289 cars (one of them is boss302), if they go for Euro tour...

[gnash]

Some information on porting E7TE
http://www.diyporting.com/E7p3.html

[David Vizard]

Walter, some extracts form your nearby post:-

The castings have increased section thickness and are machined to O.E.M. quality; they should be viewed as such.
I agree- they look nice pieces right out of the box but I have only experience with two sets and I ported these. It was very much a case of "have die grinder, flow bench and dyno - will port'. There was as I remember a western along these lines- 'Have gun - will travel'.

With very minimal work I got these heads to produce some really solid results. However the fact that I did not test a stock set to see what they could do I was pleased to see that you had much experience in this area. I would like to quote you and your findings in the head chapter of my current book as it will fill a hole in on the subject of these heads.


In this form; their minimum flow is 240 cfm @.550" on the intake side and 170 cfm @.500" on the exhaust side.

That sounds about where my numbers were but as i remember it was reasonably easy to get up to 260 plus on the intake and about 190 on the exhaust. I am sure there is more potential there but it would probably take an experienced head porter to find it and most of my readers probably do not have a flow bench.

You will find no better value and "bang for the buck" anywhere at only a RETAIL price of $625.00 each.

Yes it certainly does look a good bang for the buck.

The 9.0/1 compression 302 crate motor from Ford Racing will easily make 345 horsepower with that "crappy" .480" lift, B303 camshaft and O.E.M. production F.I. Intake Manifold.

you won't find any argument from me on that score!!!

Thanks for your input here Walter - there is nothing like first hand experience.
DV

[Carnut1]

1211161750.jpg

I dug these out of storage for a quick comparison.

[Carnut1]

1211161753.jpg

1.94/1.6 valve combo. Ported E7TE heads. This pair were not sonic checked and could probably go more with careful work. E7TE's ported like this make a very hot street 306. Ask me how I know. Yes, other heads will out flow them but at a loss of street torque due to lower velocity. Smaller cube motors really take a torque hit if the port velocity dips too low. Thanks, Charlie

[Walter R. Malik]

Walter, some extracts form your nearby post:-

The castings have increased section thickness and are machined to O.E.M. quality; they should be viewed as such.
I agree- they look nice pieces right out of the box but I have only experience with two sets and I ported these. It was very much a case of "have die grinder, flow bench and dyno - will port'. There was as I remember a western along these lines- 'Have gun - will travel'.

With very minimal work I got these heads to produce some really solid results. However the fact that I did not test a stock set to see what they could do I was pleased to see that you had much experience in this area. I would like to quote you and your findings in the head chapter of my current book as it will fill a hole in on the subject of these heads.


In this form; their minimum flow is 240 cfm @.550" on the intake side and 170 cfm @.500" on the exhaust side.

That sounds about where my numbers were but as i remember it was reasonably easy to get up to 260 plus on the intake and about 190 on the exhaust. I am sure there is more potential there but it would probably take an experienced head porter to find it and most of my readers probably do not have a flow bench.

You will find no better value and "bang for the buck" anywhere at only a RETAIL price of $625.00 each.

Yes it certainly does look a good bang for the buck.

The 9.0/1 compression 302 crate motor from Ford Racing will easily make 345 horsepower with that "crappy" .480" lift, B303 camshaft and O.E.M. production F.I. Intake Manifold.

you won't find any argument from me on that score!!!

Thanks for your input here Walter - there is nothing like first hand experience.
DV

David ... the best part about these heads, in my opinion, is that they use a later production type "bolt down" rocker arm set-up which makes them a DIRECT replacement.
The worst part about that is the intake valve size is such that a good sized camshaft can not be used without increasing the diameter of the O.E.M. piston intake valve notches.

[Morgo]

Wow! when someone like DV prise your porting.. Walter;I quess you are happy one!
Cast iron.. I rather shoot the customer but then again;who pay I do..