2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by Carnut1 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:15 pm

Interesting graph, but it looks wrong. That is the gt40x aluminum heads vs. Boat anchors E7's? I did say they would give the aluminum gt40x heads a battle but after seeing that graph I will make my bets. E7's win small cam hands down and beat the gt40x heads right to 5000 rpm with the big cam. E7 specs 2" / 1.58" valves 150cc intake and 53 cc exhaust port. Off the top of my head I don't know the specs on the gt40x heads. Thanks, Charlie
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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by digger » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:34 am

David Vizard wrote:Round 9 - the specific port energy.

This is a very useful way to look at . a cylinder heads output production capability and make a comparison of how it will plan out in real life.

From the graph below we can see just how effectively the balance between port flow and velocity works out.

In spite of having less peak flow the port energy of our E7TE heads has exceeded that of the GT 40 heads I ported as part of the comparative dyno tests.

Note how much higher the port energy is than the stock ports. This is all due to a more efficient and only minimally larger port . flowing much more air without any sacrifice of port speed.

The dyno will have the final word here but I am expecting these heads to rival the GT40 heads in terms of total output.

Just for the record a good ProStock head runs about 27 or so ft-lbs/sqr in/per foot length.

DV

David,

you have done a good job showing the efficiency of different ports, however the elephant in the room for me is the absolute size required for the application, in some ways i think it is the first piece of information one needs. did i miss the post where this is discussed? of course there are occasions where you can never make the port too big if the casting limitation are strict so you just focus on efficiency, this isn't always the case though.

if i understand your method then if i am silly enough to make the port too big but it is ported very well and efficient it will register well on the port energy graph because everything is compared at the same depression, but in reality it is still too big for the engine

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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by David Vizard » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:24 am

Digger,
Thye IOP program used here tells you what yor peak power rpm will be at with the port size you are testing.

If the port is too big when you have finished it is because you ignored what the program was telling you.

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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by Carnut1 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:58 pm

David Vizard wrote:
Casper393W wrote:There is a reason people pay to go sit in on David's seminars. His 306 just made 496hp with a dual plane manifold! Most peoples 383's don't make that....

I recommend that if you ever get the chance to learn from David it is worth it! I value his friendship and he has taught me more than he realizes....
Casper -
Thanks for the vote of confidence here but the 496 hp was the other engines figures. The 306 only made 487 with an out of the box Edelbrock Performer Air Gap two plane. Might be work noting that was on 87 octane fuel.


DV
A quick ratio/proportion equation states if I built a 440ci that made the same power per cube as the 306 that would be 700 hp on 87 octane.
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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by MadBill » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:09 pm

Alas, over significant ranges, hp/c.i. (or B.M.E.P.) for equal cylinder count does not scale. With all the tech available, a Sonny's 1,000 c.i. engine cannot make the ~ 3,000 hp that a pair of NHRA Pro Stocks can.
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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by Carnut1 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:11 pm

MadBill wrote:Alas, over significant ranges, hp/c.i. (or B.M.E.P.) for equal cylinder count does not scale. With all the tech available, a Sonny's 1,000 c.i. engine cannot make the ~ 3,000 hp that a pair of NHRA Pro Stocks can.
I should have know it would be you to shatter my dreams Bill.
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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by MadBill » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:36 pm

Sorry.. :D
It's the same principles that allows ants to lift 100 times their own weight and prevents elephants from jumping..
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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by Carnut1 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:42 am

CGT wrote:I vote that the heads that were ported by the Vizard ideology will win for sure in that test.
This statement has a different meaning at this point! This will be fun!
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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by Carnut1 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:47 am

I would like to do some computer Sims on these heads. I did some looking but could not find the 347 specs or the two cam specs. Please help. Thanks, Charlie
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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by Carnut1 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:10 pm

This is developing into a serious cylinder head competition. Not totally nailed down but think 306 and 7750 rpm capable shortblock. A little competition never hurt anyone. Well, maybe feelings.
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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by Stan Weiss » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:23 am

MadBill wrote:Alas, over significant ranges, hp/c.i. (or B.M.E.P.) for equal cylinder count does not scale. With all the tech available, a Sonny's 1,000 c.i. engine cannot make the ~ 3,000 hp that a pair of NHRA Pro Stocks can.
Bill,
True. But if we could use some of relationships between part we could get a lot closer. Using the same Bore / Stroke ratio would mean we would need an almost 6" bore. That would mean we could run over a 3" Intake valve :shock:

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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by turbo2256b » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:10 am

Carnut1 wrote:This is developing into a serious cylinder head competition. Not totally nailed down but think 306 and 7750 rpm capable shortblock. A little competition never hurt anyone. Well, maybe feelings.

Thats about were I am at with a set of DOOE heads and a .500 lift cam.

Have ported E7 heads that pulled 375 HP on a chassis dyno but test was stopped around 4000 RPM due to need for larger injectors.

My friends shop I worked with porting heads worked for Batton for years and got to learn more about the effects of different cylinder heads mods than most all of us. Batton owned their own dynos and at one time did most of the big threes experimental cylinder head work.

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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by Carnut1 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:45 pm

turbo2256b wrote:
Carnut1 wrote:This is developing into a serious cylinder head competition. Not totally nailed down but think 306 and 7750 rpm capable shortblock. A little competition never hurt anyone. Well, maybe feelings.

Thats about were I am at with a set of DOOE heads and a .500 lift cam.

Have ported E7 heads that pulled 375 HP on a chassis dyno but test was stopped around 4000 RPM due to need for larger injectors.

My friends shop I worked with porting heads worked for Batton for years and got to learn more about the effects of different cylinder heads mods than most all of us. Batton owned their own dynos and at one time did most of the big threes experimental cylinder head work.
I am sure someone could calc what the horsepower would be at 6000 rpm. 375 horsepower sounds pretty good at 4000 rpm..
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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by CGT » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:03 pm

turbo2256b wrote:
Carnut1 wrote:This is developing into a serious cylinder head competition. Not totally nailed down but think 306 and 7750 rpm capable shortblock. A little competition never hurt anyone. Well, maybe feelings.

Thats about were I am at with a set of DOOE heads and a .500 lift cam.

Have ported E7 heads that pulled 375 HP on a chassis dyno but test was stopped around 4000 RPM due to need for larger injectors.

My friends shop I worked with porting heads worked for Batton for years and got to learn more about the effects of different cylinder heads mods than most all of us. Batton owned their own dynos and at one time did most of the big threes experimental cylinder head work.
NA? 302ci?

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Re: 2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

Post by BILL-C » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:25 pm

Be careful with trying to compare chassis dyno numbers to flywheel hp numbers. It's not as easy as most think. Impossible sometimes.
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