5.0 build for street rod

[lewy-d]

wyrmrider: car is built. weight is guessed at 2500. currently has iron headed SBC with T350. the owner is outta town. I'll have tire diameter & weight next week.
thanks for all the help everyone.
anymore intake suggestions?
header size?
bmsdaniel: do you know how much HP your combo makes? what rpm do you feel good turning yours to? Should it get a main girdle? What would you do differently?

[bmcdaniel]

header size?
bmsdaniel: do you know how much HP your combo makes? what rpm do you feel good turning yours to? Should it get a main girdle? What would you do differently?

1 5/8" headers are plenty big.
I would guesstimate 350-375 FWHP.
My mild cam is good to about 5800 rpm, I shift at about 6200.
Unless it ties into the oil pan rail a main girdle on a small block Ford is a waste other than it holds everything together when the block breaks.
Depends how he's gonna use the car. If he's just gonna cruise around the Edelbrock heads will be ok. If he wants to make some power he should sell those heads and put the money towards a set of AFR 165/185 Renegades or something similar. IMO

[AllNatural]

With all the questions it sounds like you might be thinking stroker so here's a good one:

331 ci
4.030 Mahle flat tops- good ring package
Eagle or Scat rods - 5.4 long
3.25 stroke Scat or Eagle
58cc AFR 185 heads 2.05/1.6 valves
10.5 compression approx at zero deck
Single pattern .588/.588 231/231@.050 on a 110 with 6 advance
1 5/8 headers
Eddy RPM with Quick Fuel 750
Engine will make 420HP at 6300
Plenty of power to smoke the tires

[panic]

Only reason to use a 5.0 instead of a 351: so you can close the hood on your Mustang.

[DanE2]

I was at the strip last Sunday and a 62 Falcon caught my eye. It was a street car that they had just put together and they were there dialing the car in. The engine was a 302/347, AFR 185 heads, RPM intake, Quick Fuel 750, 10.5 compression, and a HR camshaft.

That Falcon ran a 11.66 et at 120 MPH. I was impressed.

Pretty much a combination like AllNatural suggested except it had a 3.4 inch stroke instead of a 3.25 inch stroke. I, like AllNatural favor the 3.25 inch stroke in a street car. Quite an effective combination for a street car and it had a nice sounding exhaust. They ran the car with a full exhaust. (Magnaflow mufflers)

[bmcdaniel]

I was at the strip last Sunday and a 62 Falcon caught my eye. It was a street car that they had just put together and they were there dialing the car in. The engine was a 302/347, AFR 185 heads, RPM intake, Quick Fuel 750, 10.5 compression, and a HR camshaft.

That Falcon ran a 11.66 et at 120 MPH. I was impressed.

Pretty much a combination like AllNatural suggested except it had a 3.4 inch stroke instead of a 3.25 inch stroke. I, like AllNatural favor the 3.25 inch stroke in a street car. Quite an effective combination for a street car and it had a nice sounding exhaust. They ran the car with a full exhaust. (Magnaflow mufflers)

That is impressive. Do you know if they were running a stock block or aftermarket block?

[Daniel Jones]

> It's a late model block so the hydraulic rollers are staying. I hope the factory style lifter stuff will be ok. It'll be carbed

There are several details to be aware of when converting a 5.0L HO EFI engine to carb. The EFI distributor won't work (advance is handled by the engine computer) and you'll need one with a steel gear to be compatible with a steel core hydraulic roller cam. The OEM steel gears were 0.531" ID and the earlier flat tappet distributor gears were 0.467" ID. The 1985 5.0L HO was hydraulic roller and equipped with a carb so is the right combination but there are also aftermarket steel gears available in popular IDs (varies by distributor manufacturer). Early front sump oil pan small block Ford V8s use a timing cover with a dipstick hole. The fox body timing covers don't have that hole (dipstick enters the rear sump of the fox body double sump oil pan via a hole in the block). Later EFI timing covers lost the boss for the mechanical fuel pump. The serpentine belt set ups use reverse rotation water pump too.

It sounds like you are rebuilding the engine so it would be a good time to change the balance factor. The 5.0L cranks were balanced to 50 oz-in versus the earlier 28.2 oz-in. The 50 oz-in cranks developed a reputation for cracking in the A Sedan road racing series. It doesn't take much Mallory metal to balance to 28.2 oz-in but you'll also need to swap to a matching flywheel and balancer (4 bolt version, not the earlier 3 bolt crank pulley style). Since you're looking at buying pistons and rods, a stroker kit isn't much more expensive and are usually designed for 28.2 oz-in (or neutral balance).

> They are older heads though, I'm pretty sure they are the 1.9" intake valve version.

Are they stud mount or pedestal mount? Many of the 1.9" intake valve versions were set up for the factory style pedestal mount rocker arms. It's popular to use 1.7:1 ratio bolt down style roller rockers arms (Ford Cobra or Crane Energizer equivalent) that use shims under the pedestal for adjustment. As long as the threads in the heads are in good shape, they are set and forget. Note that SBF hydraulic roller cams are fairly specialized these days and often there are two versions of the same cam, one for the OEM 1.6:1 rocker ratio and another for the 1.7:1 ratio. The heads are likely drilled for the 1/2" 351W head bolt diameter instead of the 7/16" 5.0L/302 diameter. You can use stepped bolts/studs or reducer bushings.

Turning 7000 RPM with a hydraulic roller reliably will take some effort and perhaps more cam overlap than will work with the intended cruise RPM. A friend of mine did a lot of testing with Rick Anderson (then of Anderson Ford Motorsport) when Rick was developing AFM's High Rev series of hydraulic roller SBF cams, eventually turning 9000 RPM with a hydraulic roller. That was with Crane link bar lifters but he also turned 7800 RPM with the OEM Ford lifters and an AFM N-111 camshaft. You can see some of the results for various combinations at:

http://www.the-arnolds.net/Cobra/

Click on "combos compared" at the top. If you then click on power/torque numbers, it will link to Dynojet dyno graphs for the combination. If you clink on the column header it will take you to more detailed information. AFM's web page will tell you the cruise RPM and recommended final drive ratio (assumes a tire roughly 25.63 inches in diameter) for each of their cams. However, AFM won't tell you the cam specs but they are easily available on the 'net. For your application, you'd be looking at the N-series (for normally aspirated) as opposed to the B-series (blower cams). The Edelbrock valve springs won't cut it at 7000 RPM but AFM has reasonably priced springs that will. The Ford Racing M-6500-R302H lifters are OEM style but are supposed to be worth 300 to 400 RPM over the OEM lifters. Also, make sure the diaphragm clutch he uses with the T5 will operate reliably at 7000 RPM (some won't).

> Performer? Performer RPM? Air gap? Parker funnel web? or something else?

For a street rod, the Performer RPM is probably the right intake.

> Will an Edelbrock 600cfm get the job done.

It will likely be restrictive on a 400 HP engine.

> What's a good RPM limit for this build? It should go to 7000 and not die an early death right?

You may see the main caps start to fret against the block if he spends much time near 7000 RPM. My buddy Marc's 2 bolt main blocks (both OEM and Ford Motorsport B50) both did but that was a drag racing application launching on slicks.

> some crazy street rod headers.

Are they long tube (4-into-1 or tri-y) or some sort of block hugger or shorty header?

> the T5 came out of a mustang 5.0 I have no idea what 5th gear ratio is.

The OEM T5s that were installed in 5.0L Mustangs had a 3.35:1 first gear and 0.68:1 5th gear. Some of the aftermarket T5s (e.g. Ford Motorsport X and Z-code) had a 2.95:1 1st and and a 0.63:1 5th. I have one of each behind 5.0L V8s and prefer the 2.95:1 first and 0.63:1 with any sort of higher numerical final drive ratio. With 25.6" diameter tire, the 3.35:1 first is nearly useless with say a 3.73:1 final drive ratio. A taller street rod tire might help there. The design of the T-5's single rail shifter doesn't incorporate mechanical over-travel stops, which allows the possibility of bending or breaking the forks. Third is especially vulnerable. If you have the box open, closely examine the forks for damage. An aftermarket shifter that incorporates external stops like Hurst is highly recommended. If the T-5 has an aluminum input bearing retainer (where the throw out bearing rides) replace it with a steel bearing retainer.

> it has a 9" (of course right?) so a gear change is not super difficult.

Are you sure it's a 9" or is it the very similar looking 8" that is popular in street rod applications? If it's an 8" and you wish it to live behind 400 HP, stud the pinion retainer and carrier caps, and use premium hardware.

> Do you think 10.0:1 is max compression pump gas 302?

If you can get 93 octane, 10.5:1 shouldn't be a problem in a light street rod if you pay attention to the spark curve.

Dan Jones

[DanE2]

bmcdaniel;

They were using the stock block and shifting at 6500 RPM. They said that they had paid a lot of attention to the balancing of the engine.

Daniel Jones;

Great post!

[bmcdaniel]

The serpentine belt set ups use reverse rotation water pump too.

Also, make sure the diaphragm clutch he uses with the T5 will operate reliably at 7000 RPM (some won't).

Unless you run a late 80's Crown Vic serpentine setup like I do. They have a grooved water pump pulley and turn in the normal direction.

Agree about the clutch, diaphragm is the way to go on the street. Running a CenterForce diaphragm clutch on mine now but for years a ran a Long-style. The engine and trans doesn't care what type of clutch you have between them.

[Daniel Jones]

> Unless you run a late 80's Crown Vic serpentine setup like I do. They have a grooved water pump pulley and turn in the normal direction.

Interesting. I should have the front dress for a 1990 Lincoln Towncar 5.0L. I'll check to see if it is the same.

Dan Jones

[Speedbump]

Don't be afraid of a tunnel ram. It is a street rod. 242@ .050 solid roller, Weiand tunnel W/ 390 Holley carbs, 306 CID, 9.1 comp. 2800 stall lock up Hughes converter/AOD. 9" W 4.11, 31" tall Hoosiers and, in actuality, cruises at 2,200 @ 70 MPH.(not a calculator) Runs pretty hard on the street due to low gears and great throttle response, for a little engine. We've put 28K miles on it in 5 years. It's not a trailer queen and it's fun.