Camshaft lead in ramp wear .. Never seen before

[The Radius Kid]

You anywhere near this guy?:

http://www.gnnorthwest.com/

Yeah .. Hes across the puget sound from me.

Go look him up.
Tell him I sent you.

[dll67]

OP
Update...
Cam is with mike getting cleaned up. Havent heard from him about any new insight into the damage to cam.

Lifters are at Morel getting inspected/rebuilt. Havent heard from them either.

Pulled the motor from the car and removed the passenger side head, the side that appears to have slightly more lifter bore wear, and measured the lifter bores. Ill do my best to explain my measurements.
Not having the actual lifters there is a margin of error. They are all well within .0002 of there min. and there max. measurements. I measured along the thrust from the top down.
From the top of the bushing down approx. 3/32 was very near the max dimension I could find anywhere in the ID of the bushing. Within or outside the area of thrust load from the cam. Which was .0018, =/- .0001 on all 8 pass side lifters.
From 3/32 down to within an 1/8 of the bottom of the bushing they measured .0019, +/- .0001 on all 8 pass side lifters.
From 1-5/8 down to 1-3/4, bottom of the bushings, they all got ugly. They all go from .0019 to .0024, +/- .0001, in that 1/8" at the bottom of the bushing.

DSCN9108 edited.jpg

As heavy as the wear looks, its only about .0001, at the top of the bushing anyway. The bottom 1/8 is a different story.
The bushings dont hang into the cam tunnel.

What do you all run for lifter clearance??? What is a realistic limit to clearance, assuming I could hone them and maintain round. To my knowledge .002 is the limit, am I correct?
My dry sump pump is running the lightest spring with 2 coils cut off, still leaving a medium and heavy spring to combat the extra clearance.
I'll have to wait to do anything about the bushings till I get the lifters back.

[Cubic_Cleveland]

OP
Update...
Cam is with mike getting cleaned up. Havent heard from him about any new insight into the damage to cam.

Lifters are at Morel getting inspected/rebuilt. Havent heard from them either.

Pulled the motor from the car and removed the passenger side head, the side that appears to have slightly more lifter bore wear, and measured the lifter bores. Ill do my best to explain my measurements.
Not having the actual lifters there is a margin of error. They are all well within .0002 of there min. and there max. measurements. I measured along the thrust from the top down.
From the top of the bushing down approx. 3/32 was very near the max dimension I could find anywhere in the ID of the bushing. Within or outside the area of thrust load from the cam. Which was .0018, =/- .0001 on all 8 pass side lifters.
From 3/32 down to within an 1/8 of the bottom of the bushing they measured .0019, +/- .0001 on all 8 pass side lifters.
From 1-5/8 down to 1-3/4, bottom of the bushings, they all got ugly. They all go from .0019 to .0024, +/- .0001, in that 1/8" at the bottom of the bushing.

DSCN9108 edited.jpg

As heavy as the wear looks, its only about .0001, at the top of the bushing anyway. The bottom 1/8 is a different story.
The bushings dont hang into the cam tunnel.

What do you all run for lifter clearance??? What is a realistic limit to clearance, assuming I could hone them and maintain round. To my knowledge .002 is the limit, am I correct?
My dry sump pump is running the lightest spring with 2 coils cut off, still leaving a medium and heavy spring to combat the extra clearance.
I'll have to wait to do anything about the bushings till I get the lifters back.

.002" is about my limit as well (depending on lifter size). Not sure as I have never done it, but can you coat lifters like you do pistons to take up the clearance?? That way you can true the bores up and be good to go again.

[dll67]

Thanks for the idea. Ill talk to morel and see if they offer coating services and look into other service providers.

I'm still looking for a way to verify the cam to lifter bore geometry. When I spoke to Action Machine in Seattle (they were involved in the last bushing install) he said he didnt want to take more work because he was so far behind. He agreed to take it if I didnt mind waiting. I would like to find other options/shop, preferably a CNC shop that can rebush/hone to blueprint.

[Tuner]

Delo 400 for the wear additives .. 30wt

Not sure today, but 40 years ago I understood Delo 400 to be a "low ash" diesel engine oil, similar to aircraft oil, no metallic additive, no Zinc or Calcium, but has high detergent/dispersant behavior. It was a common trick to use Delo 400 to clean up a sludgy engine that had sticky hydraulic lifters, but always added a can of GM EOS with it to get the Zinc and Calcium additives.

[dll67]

OP
I'm not positive the information I gathered on delo 400 was current in regards to it's zddp and other anti wear additives. Which is why I chose to use delo. I've learned from this thread that even the emissions equipment in diesels are effected by zddp and other anti wear additives and have probably been removed or reduced in delo. Either way I'm looking for a new non detergent oil to use.

[Krooser]

Delo 100 is the oil you need to find. I think it's only available in SAE 40 wt. Delo 400 has always been a detergent oil going back to it's early days in the 70's.

[dll67]

OP
**UPDATE**
I have my camshaft back from Mike Jones (CamKing). He studied the wear patterns and cleaned up the cam, then verified it was good-to-go again.
I contacted Chris Straub about an update on my .904 bushed lifter rebuild and they were still 6 plus weeks out on the inspection/rebuild ... So I bought a second set of lifters which I was already giving thought to. Having 2 sets of lifters enables me to keep one set in the motor while the second set is off being inspected/rebuild with my annual winter motor freshening up. Chris was very understanding and I am confident that he is doing everything he can to help my situation. On his recommendation on a machine shop he suggested Mike Lewis (WolfPlace) in N. California.
Having been unable to find a machine shop in washington state that could verify my lifter bore locations I drove the 12 hours each way to see Mike Lewis in N. California. He was gracious enough to give his time to look at my lifter bores and share some insight.
We determined that the bores had worn in a unusual pattern but even with the wear it was under .002. He was convinced that the loose Jesel cam adapter was what allowed the roller cam to walk and was absolutely the cause for the lifter bore wear. With his expert opinion that the wear was within allowable limits, he suggested ball honing the bushings to get no tolerance increase and impart a hone pattern to hold a oil film and run them with my new lifters.
So happy with his diagnosis I made the 12 hour drive home with my block in hand and am currently working on the reassembly of the motor.

[Caster67]

So what was the final diagnosis of the camshaft tracking? Was it the cam, the lifters, or the lifter bores that caused the tracking?

[wyrmrider]

start here
" loose Jesel cam adapter was what allowed the roller cam to walk and was absolutely the cause for the lifter bore wear."

[dll67]

start here
" loose Jesel cam adapter was what allowed the roller cam to walk and was absolutely the cause for the lifter bore wear."

OP
Hopefully the lifter bushings won't continue to follow the unusual wear. I hit them with a ball hone and re assembled the motor with fresh cam and new lifters .. .0016 to ..0018 lifter to bushing clearance