408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

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David Vizard
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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by David Vizard » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:25 pm

ou812 wrote:
David Vizard wrote: A:- Agreed, but I am running 10/1 plus with moves that make the engine less demanding of higher octane fuel.


If I may ask, what moves do you make to achieve an engine that's less demanding of higher octane fuel? Our here in Ca., we have really poor fuel with 10% ethanol. I've been wanting to experiment with 87 octane fuel but not with customer's stuff....
Thank you!


Just got to your post here. lets see If I can do a quick answer before I have to hit the road.

#1 chamber designs that scavenge better than average. This gets rid of more hot exhaust residuals and allows for a lower temp charge at the time of ignition.
#2 Assuming the right spark plug the exhaust valve is the # 1 cause of detonation. Thermal barrier coatings on the face cut valve temps. So do sodium cooled valves and coated sodium cooled valves are even better yet.
#3 Minimize exhaust valve stem clearances just short of what will seize for sure as closer clearances dump a lot more E/valve heat into a bronze guide.
#4 Use bronze guides not iron.
#5 Use aluminum heads not iron.
#6 The intake valve absorbs more heat than the exhaust valve during the combustion cycle because it is of greater area. that heat is then transfered into the intake charge which is not good. Coat the Intake valve face as an absolute minimum.
#7 Use a good thermal barrier on the intake port and manifold runners
# 8 Better fuel atomization is needed with thermal barrier coated ports. Dyno test alternative boosters in the carb if the atomization is too coarse.
# 9 if the fuel atomization is at or near optimal the spark timing needed will be less. This means the end gases (which is the part of the charge that is last to burn and most likely to detonate) will have received less radiated heat. This reduces the temperature and increases detonation resistance.
#10 Use an intense spark (Might want to read what I have on this in my Holley book ref Amozon.com)
Run the engine block at no more than 170 degrees F.
#11 If it is convenient run reverse cooling
#12 draw in cold air from outside the engine compartment
#13 I am sure there are still more little details I/we do but off hand I can't think of them.

As it happens all of these moves also increase torque.

DV
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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by ou812 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:24 pm

Thank you David, that was awesome!
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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by David Vizard » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:46 pm

Well this 408 is sold. It seems I misquoted the price at $8000 but the buyer was still pleased with a purchase price of $8900 especially as the parts bill at Summit prices was closer to $12,000.

Since then I have had a number of communications asking if I have any other project motors for sale. At the risk of looking like I am advertising the answers yes.
Included in these is an EFI 302 Mustang motor with very good heads (coated, hi-velocity ports, 295 cfm at 600 lift) and a prototype conversion of the GT40 intake manifold which maintains ambient induction air temps (no more icing down the intake here). Previous dyno test showed the modifications to be worth over 25 lbs-ft and nearly 30 hp. This is a slick looking motor (Check out photo)with most of the ancillaries such as alternator water pump, power steering etc.

I also have a killer 427 build going together to test the TFS twisted wedge R heads. These flow very similar #'s to the AFR heads tested on the 408. I am estimating torque at just shy of 600 lbs-ft and HP around 640 The purpose of this build is to show off the DSS 427 short block,the TFS heads and a valve train and intake that will make it all work.

My last BB Chevy was done for the updated copy of my current BBC book volume II. This is an upgraded version of the 496 engine on the front cover of volume I. This street driver had an output of some 788 hp and 689 lbs-ft . The MKII version, which has a 4 3/8 stroke crank (for 511 cubes) instead of 4 1/4 stroke. Had solid roller cam AFR 320 heads, Sniper intake and a few other moves (only to be found in the book) produced 718 lbs-ft and 809 hp on pump gas. This has been sold. We have almost all the parts to build A MKIII version of that plus a about 4 BBC's at displacements from 468 to 652 inches. All at prices below the cost of the parts.

Call Terry Walters ( 540-774-8605) if you are interested in any of these after we have done our testing.

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by rfoll » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:36 pm

Something tells me that selling your well developed engines at less than cost won't raise any objections from anyone.
So much to do, so little time...

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by David Vizard » Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:19 pm

The 306 SB Ford shown in the photo a couple of posts back is the next dyno test session. I have done lots of mods in an effort to increase torque output with this style of intake. Over the years I have progressively worked on this intake. At the last test it was over 20 hp up on what it delivered as I got it out of the box.
This engine is also destined for a intake/cylinder and exhaust pressure measurement deal to see what the next steps toward output improvements might be.
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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by mbrooks » Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:51 pm

Hi David. I was the one purchased the 408. I was hoping to report earlier, but still waiting on trans and a few other part delays. I have two very similar cars, one already has a similar 408 with the smaller 205 heads and different cam spec'd by someone not on this forum. I can even swap the carbs, the only difference being slightly different rear gearing, cam and heads. It's going in a JBL Roadster weighing 2400#, 5 spd, rocker front suspension and pullrod rear irs, replacing the current 351 w/400hp. I was needing to pull the 351 to do some work and wanted to install a 408 for about 2 yrs, and one morning this showed up! I'm expecting good things! I have to resize the pictures to include them and hopefully figure it out when I post next. Oh, I also have your books, old and tattered, built a few engines using your tips. Thanks.

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by David Vizard » Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:44 pm

mbrooks wrote:Hi David. I was the one purchased the 408. I was hoping to report earlier, but still waiting on trans and a few other part delays. I have two very similar cars, one already has a similar 408 with the smaller 205 heads and different cam spec'd by someone not on this forum. I can even swap the carbs, the only difference being slightly different rear gearing, cam and heads. It's going in a JBL Roadster weighing 2400#, 5 spd, rocker front suspension and pullrod rear irs, replacing the current 351 w/400hp. I was needing to pull the 351 to do some work and wanted to install a 408 for about 2 yrs, and one morning this showed up! I'm expecting good things! I have to resize the pictures to include them and hopefully figure it out when I post next. Oh, I also have your books, old and tattered, built a few engines using your tips. Thanks.
I am looking forward to seeing this engine in the car. Could use a photo maybe for the book!
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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by mbrooks » Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:33 pm

Question, the cam in the 408 looks like a Comp Cam, 35-000-9, I am trying to use my distributor and determine compatibility with the gears. Can anyone tell me what type material the cam gear would be? I have a FMS oem style distributor that came on the 351 with hydraulic roller cam and it uses what looks to be a steel or cast iron gear that I have had no problems with, yet. Thanks.

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by induction apprentice » Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:21 pm

Maybe it's not worth figuring it out. I think I would look around in your area and see if you can purchase a new melanized gear.

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by mbrooks » Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:50 pm

That's a thought. The gear on the ford distributor used with the 351 has part number 28714 on the gear, which makes it Mallory and hardened steel. Or switch to the bronze gear on the dizzy they sent. Would like to know what the -9 on the cam number means, -8 I think means SADI. Should have made a separate thread.

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by GARY C » Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:27 pm

mbrooks wrote:That's a thought. The gear on the ford distributor used with the 351 has part number 28714 on the gear, which makes it Mallory and hardened steel. Or switch to the bronze gear on the dizzy they sent. Would like to know what the -9 on the cam number means, -8 I think means SADI. Should have made a separate thread.
If it's the cam DV put in the engine it will be the better core...I would contact Comp directly or Terry Walters if you don't have DV's contact info.

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by induction apprentice » Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:51 pm

If memory has it. I believe The dash 9 is the price code usually designates custom grind.

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by paulzig » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:50 am

induction apprentice wrote:If memory has it. I believe The dash 9 is the price code usually designates custom grind.
dash 9 is billet steel core dash 8 is the cheaper SADI core as far as I know...

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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by mbrooks » Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:53 pm

Thanks for the info guys. I'm going with the present hardened gear on the dizzy, it's proven and looks good to my eye. Was hoping to get it fired up today, but the direct replacement alternator needs a shorter belt and a few other odds and ends to wrap up. See if I can upload the progress. I had to change out the super victor for victor jr. for hood clearance, and the nice tigged aluminum covers for the FMS so I could hang the plug wires off the bottom row of fasteners, and wanted to use my dizzy as it has the bigger cap and proven on the present system, and a million other things to make this work it seems.
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Re: 408 SBF with AFR’s latest 220 cnc heads – what power?

Post by RevTheory » Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:55 pm

You've got to show us the rest of the car, dude. That looks bad ass!

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