"Ultra Torque"

[user-612937456]

I have always torqued SBC head bolts the traditional way 1 click and repeat the torque pattern 30 min later. But I had an old timer tell me I was doing it wrong. For graphite or carbon (the non steel paper type) head gaskets he says the second time around you move the torque wrench in ultra slow but steady pressure. I watched as he got and extra 15 to 45 degree's turn out of the bolts before the torque wrench clicked. Then he waited about 15 min and a third time and some of the bolts went another 5 to 10 degree's. This is with new ARP head bolts with ARP ultra lube on aluminum heads he called this procedure the head bolts "ultra torque". Is this wrong or should I consider it a new learned SOP. I have been doing it the other way for almost 40 years without any negative affects?

[cgarb]

I would tend to think clicker style torque wrenches are subject to some degree of operator error, depending on how quickly you pull on the handle of the wrench. That problem is probably compounded by the fact you are torqueing a long head bolt. The bolt will wind up some at the head before tuning the bottom where the threads are. By pulling slowly and evenly you are giving the bottom of the bolt a chance to catch up with the head of the bolt. That is the reason I don't care for head bolts. You can get ten different answers from ten different people. That's just my opinion. If my way works for me, your way works for you and your buddies way works for him... who's wrong? Unless I was having head gasket issues I would just keep on keeping on.

[pdq67]

Studs are usually/probably/sometimes better, but then again, you might not be able to pull a head off without removing them?

pdq67

[cgarb]

If you look at it from a fastener standpoint studs just clamp better. If not Top Fuel motors would be using bolts. That being said, accessibility and ease of use do come into play when deciding on fastener type.

[ProPower engines]

Most head torque is depending on the technic and the best way I found was to do a steady not a jerky pull. Constant pressure applied to a fastener is better then a fast jerk to spec.

I do my stuff in sequence to the spec needed then wait about 2 hrs after then loosen each bolt/stud in sequence 1/4 to 1/2 turn then go steady to full torque.
I find it removes all or at least most of the friction torque loss that steps induce into the equation allowing for a tighter torque.Aluminum heads and gaskets can be problematic iron heads no as bad but both benefit from this method and I have never had a gasket issue in 30 years of doing it.

This only applies to conventional fasteners. TTY bolts are the exception to the rule but the TTA bolts use a similar method by using a 90 deg angle or 2 90 deg turns in the final sequence/s

[modok]

"Super slow" method
Might be better if you are paid by the hour.

[Invasivecoyote]

does anyone know of a youtube video that shows main caps walking? there are plenty videos of 12000 + rpm valve train videos and cameras being inserted into the combustion chamber under high rpm yet what about the main cap walking under high rpm?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy_yaAOKjA8

[ProPower engines]

does anyone know of a youtube video that shows main caps walking? there are plenty videos of 12000 + rpm valve train videos and cameras being inserted into the combustion chamber under high rpm yet what about the main cap walking under high rpm?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy_yaAOKjA8

How did you go from head gaskets to cap walk???
A new thread would get more attention

[Invasivecoyote]

Post was originally about bolt torque ; I assumed this could apply to the mains as well.

[Kevin Johnson]

does anyone know of a youtube video that shows main caps walking? there are plenty videos of 12000 + rpm valve train videos and cameras being inserted into the combustion chamber under high rpm yet what about the main cap walking under high rpm?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy_yaAOKjA8

The comments made by researchers observing windage in an operating engine indicate that after about 3000-4000 rpms it is very difficult to see clearly -- too much oil flying around.

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&h ... en&tbm=vid There are a number of videos here of fretting fatigue testing machines.

[Dan Timberlake]

The late, great Joe Mondello recommended treating new fasteners "differently."

page 9/10 here -
http://www.mondellotwister.com/articles ... Engine.pdf

Based on ARP's data, Joe was on to something.
http://speednik.com/files/2014/06/ARP1-640x479.jpg

Tightening a well lubed fastener with a high quality high strength washer under the head does have a luxurious feel. Similar to the highly damped dial on stereo equipment back in the analog days.

[novadude]

Tightening a well lubed fastener with a high quality high strength washer under the head does have a luxurious feel.

While I know exactly what you mean, this still has me laughing. Only a true hardcore car geek would use the words "luxurious feel" in reference to handling a torque wrench and tightening fasteners. I guess you can put me in that camp too, since I "get it".

[user-612937456]

Problem is probably compounded by the fact you are torqueing a long head bolt. The bolt will wind up some at the head before tuning the bottom where the threads are. By pulling slowly and evenly you are giving the bottom of the bolt a chance to catch up with the head of the bolt.

Come to think of it years ago I remember with the beam type torque wrench you could watch this phenomenon. Holding it steady you could see the indicator lessening in value and have to continue turning to achieve torque spec. Now I can see the bolt shaft wind up contributing to this phenomenon so I guess that there is a little gasket compression, aluminum compression, and bolt stretch involved and the waiting period then a re-torque will compensate for this movement. and yes to the long head bolts there is not near as much extra movement on the short bolts.

Thanks for all the great answers this thread was really informative.

[pamotorman]

I watched a old timer torque the head bolts and then using a hammer and flat punch go around and hit each bolt head. then retorque and the bolts moved on the second retorque. never tied it myself.

[Nick Campagna]

I normally burnish the threads with an electric drill tightening the nut and loosening it a half dozen times to a low torque to polish / burnish off minor irregularities in the threads. Remove the nut, clean thoroughly, and then go though the torque sequence.