Cool valve cover video
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Re: Cool valve cover video
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I am sure it had a breather somewhere, something would pop if it didn't, right?
I can't see a breather port in this valve cover, so I assume he's smartly venting it out of the block valley somewhere. This may just be my inexperience speaking, but to me it seems that venting out of the valve covers will not help the oil to drain back into the sump... My logic says that you want to reduce the pressure in the crankcase proper and oil pan more than in the valve covers to facilitate the oil drain.
(Of course, the piston pumping pulses are the elephant in the room, but can't even pretend to understand those.)[/quote]
air as to get in for the fluid to run out. take a soda straw and dip it into a glass of water. after the straw is full put your finger over the top before pulling it out of the glass and the water will stay in the straw till you remove your finger and the air can get in
In a lot of engines they address this by having standpipes that are higher than the drain pipes so that the two volumes can communicate. With that type of chaos in the valve cover volume that would not work.
Surface foam will break down very quickly. Entrained bubbles take much longer.
In another thread SF200 was being injected into the motor oil as an antifoam. It works great for that but has the unfortunate side effect of making it easier for bubbles to be entrained into the oil. Big problem with the siloxanes.[/quote]
back in the 60s and 70s when I was using 200 fluid it was at the suggestions of the engineers at gulf oil research labs where we ran in our race engines on their dynos. I ran stand pipes in the heads back then but it was to keep the valve springs under oil at all times to prevent them from over heating. maybe it was also helping the crank case venting
I am sure it had a breather somewhere, something would pop if it didn't, right?
I can't see a breather port in this valve cover, so I assume he's smartly venting it out of the block valley somewhere. This may just be my inexperience speaking, but to me it seems that venting out of the valve covers will not help the oil to drain back into the sump... My logic says that you want to reduce the pressure in the crankcase proper and oil pan more than in the valve covers to facilitate the oil drain.
(Of course, the piston pumping pulses are the elephant in the room, but can't even pretend to understand those.)[/quote]
air as to get in for the fluid to run out. take a soda straw and dip it into a glass of water. after the straw is full put your finger over the top before pulling it out of the glass and the water will stay in the straw till you remove your finger and the air can get in
In a lot of engines they address this by having standpipes that are higher than the drain pipes so that the two volumes can communicate. With that type of chaos in the valve cover volume that would not work.
Surface foam will break down very quickly. Entrained bubbles take much longer.
In another thread SF200 was being injected into the motor oil as an antifoam. It works great for that but has the unfortunate side effect of making it easier for bubbles to be entrained into the oil. Big problem with the siloxanes.[/quote]
back in the 60s and 70s when I was using 200 fluid it was at the suggestions of the engineers at gulf oil research labs where we ran in our race engines on their dynos. I ran stand pipes in the heads back then but it was to keep the valve springs under oil at all times to prevent them from over heating. maybe it was also helping the crank case venting
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Re: Cool valve cover video
I used to sell Mazer silicone fluids as antifoams but did not know about the issue with air entrainment until I studied more about oils. The terms used with respect to foaming and air in oil are a little fuzzy. Several SAE papers go into careful detail about exactly what they mean. Small entrained bubbles can take minutes to clear from engine oil while foam dissipates rapidly.pamotorman wrote: back in the 60s and 70s when I was using 200 fluid it was at the suggestions of the engineers at gulf oil research labs where we ran in our race engines on their dynos. I ran stand pipes in the heads back then but it was to keep the valve springs under oil at all times to prevent them from over heating. maybe it was also helping the crank case venting
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Re: Cool valve cover video
A friend of mine recounts an experience with a 4 cyl turbo Chrysler drag car. It suddenly lost >0.2". Upon checking, they found the sump had been overfilled. Drained it down as needed but the car was still down a ton on time.
A Chrysler rep happened by and when they explained the issue he said "Change the oil." Bingo! Right back to normal. He said the entrained air whipped up by the crank was partially collapsing the lifters and would take up to a hour to dissipate.
A Chrysler rep happened by and when they explained the issue he said "Change the oil." Bingo! Right back to normal. He said the entrained air whipped up by the crank was partially collapsing the lifters and would take up to a hour to dissipate.
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Re: Cool valve cover video
Enlightening video !!
I took particular interest in the comments re: "almost impossible to vent through the valve cover without picking up oil".
I am suffering from this exact problem - sucking from the front of a valve cover of a BBC with a vacuum pump - picking up oil and blowing it out the breather on the top of the catch can.
So, where is a better (or even "best") place to place the suction line ?
I took particular interest in the comments re: "almost impossible to vent through the valve cover without picking up oil".
I am suffering from this exact problem - sucking from the front of a valve cover of a BBC with a vacuum pump - picking up oil and blowing it out the breather on the top of the catch can.
So, where is a better (or even "best") place to place the suction line ?
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Re: Cool valve cover video
If you search on YouTube for similar runs with a clear valve cover, none of them shows this kind of flooding. I can hardly believe that much oil would wind up there without emptying the pan completely.
Re: Cool valve cover video
I think the difference is that those other videos are taken with the engine stationary and not subject to cornering forces. This video that I posted is taken when the car is driven and the engine is subjected to the cornering, braking, and acceleration g-forces. There's a big difference.Belgian1979 wrote:If you search on YouTube for similar runs with a clear valve cover, none of them shows this kind of flooding. I can hardly believe that much oil would wind up there without emptying the pan completely.
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Re: Cool valve cover video
All that oil has to get up there in the first place. The only way I see that happening is via the pushrods.
If you look closely you can see the oil in the first instances only on the outboard side. This means that the oil has to have come from the pushrods and via the rockers. In view of the small channel these only have there is no way this is possible imo. Isn't this guy running a valve spring spray bar or so ?
If you look closely you can see the oil in the first instances only on the outboard side. This means that the oil has to have come from the pushrods and via the rockers. In view of the small channel these only have there is no way this is possible imo. Isn't this guy running a valve spring spray bar or so ?
Re: Cool valve cover video
It could be pushed up the oil drains in a left turn. The combination of 1g effectively turning the 90-degree v8 on its side and the piston pumping pulses communicating partly thru the heads virtually guarantees some oil being pushed to the heads via oil drains. And by my logic (not to be confused with actual knowledge) venting the crankcase thru the valve covers only makes this problem worse.Belgian1979 wrote:All that oil has to get up there in the first place. The only way I see that happening is via the pushrods. If you look closely you can see the oil in the first instances only on the outboard side. This means that the oil has to have come from the pushrods and via the rockers. In view of the small channel these only have there is no way this is possible imo. Isn't this guy running a valve spring spray bar or so ?
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Re: Cool valve cover video
I think that's a very engine specific question/answer and if you get BBC expert reading this they'll know the answer.cuslog wrote:Enlightening video !! I took particular interest in the comments re: "almost impossible to vent through the valve cover without picking up oil". I am suffering from this exact problem - sucking from the front of a valve cover of a BBC with a vacuum pump - picking up oil and blowing it out the breather on the top of the catch can. So, where is a better (or even "best") place to place the suction line ?
Paradigms often shift without the clutch -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxn-LxwsrnU
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Re: Cool valve cover video
That would require the valley area to be filled with oil in the first place. I'm not saying there is no oil, but there are a heck of a lot more drains in the valley than the head, unless they were plugged.ptuomov wrote:It could be pushed up the oil drains in a left turn. The combination of 1g effectively turning the 90-degree v8 on its side and the piston pumping pulses communicating partly thru the heads virtually guarantees some oil being pushed to the heads via oil drains. And by my logic (not to be confused with actual knowledge) venting the crankcase thru the valve covers only makes this problem worse.Belgian1979 wrote:All that oil has to get up there in the first place. The only way I see that happening is via the pushrods. If you look closely you can see the oil in the first instances only on the outboard side. This means that the oil has to have come from the pushrods and via the rockers. In view of the small channel these only have there is no way this is possible imo. Isn't this guy running a valve spring spray bar or so ?
Personnally I only see the oil at the outboard engine side first and not on the inboard side of the valve cover, so I think it comes through the rockers. What I do see is the oil moving forward during braking and backward during acceleration.
In a normal PCV system, there is no crankcase vacuum, as the opposite valve cover allows for air to enter the engine.
Not only will the pcv puke oil, but I'm wondering about those poor valve seals in that situation. I think this engine is sucking in a lot of oil as well.
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Re: Cool valve cover video
As tends to happen around here I think you boys are over analyzing it.
What I saw in the 70s with no oil restrictors and sitting still was just as bad as this video. Once the oil hit the cover even at high idle it stuck and got tough to see anything of consequence. Once the Rs came up, forget it. But it was cool for a while.
Somebody go buy a set, take good video and show us what is and is not.
What I saw in the 70s with no oil restrictors and sitting still was just as bad as this video. Once the oil hit the cover even at high idle it stuck and got tough to see anything of consequence. Once the Rs came up, forget it. But it was cool for a while.
Somebody go buy a set, take good video and show us what is and is not.
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Re: Cool valve cover video
Good idea. Let's look inside the same side valve cover of an engine on the track -- an engine known to have a fatal air entrainment problem. Some similarities. It was not fatal for a GT road car driven reasonably on the highway, even at high speed. Likewise the Cadillac engine was fine for a road car. Both engines went through OEM testing cycles and passed. The problem arises outside their intended operating regime.Dave Koehler wrote:As tends to happen around here I think you boys are over analyzing it.
What I saw in the 70s with no oil restrictors and sitting still was just as bad as this video. Once the oil hit the cover even at high idle it stuck and got tough to see anything of consequence. Once the Rs came up, forget it. But it was cool for a while.
Somebody go buy a set, take good video and show us what is and is not.
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Re: Cool valve cover video
"so I assume he's smartly venting it out of the block valley somewhere"ptuomov wrote:I am sure it had a breather somewhere, something would pop if it didn't, right?pamotorman wrote:if the engine did not have a breather some place crankcase pressure could cause the problem not allowing the oil to return to the pan
I can't see a breather port in this valve cover, so I assume he's smartly venting it out of the block valley somewhere. This may just be my inexperience speaking, but to me it seems that venting out of the valve covers will not help the oil to drain back into the sump... My logic says that you want to reduce the pressure in the crankcase proper and oil pan more than in the valve covers to facilitate the oil drain.
(Of course, the piston pumping pulses are the elephant in the room, but can't even pretend to understand those.)
when you said that are you referring to sucking the crankcase pressure out through the lifter valley via a header evac system?
Re: Cool valve cover video
Looks like an SB2.2 head with valve spring oilers in the rocker bars (nascar cup stuff). I do believe they like to fully flood the valve covers just like we're seeing here.
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Re: Cool valve cover video
stealth wrote:Looks like an SB2.2 head with valve spring oilers in the rocker bars (nascar cup stuff). I do believe they like to fully flood the valve covers just like we're seeing here.
That makes more sense than a Caddy head. Found a pic as well. Here is the Caddy head:
If the block is being run as a dry sump then the aeration should not be a problem assuming the tank (and possibly separate deaerators) are up to the task. I think fatal for a wetsump, though.
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Last edited by Kevin Johnson on Sat May 16, 2015 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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