counterfeit concerns

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ProPower engines
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Re: counterfeit concerns

Post by ProPower engines »

Little Mouse wrote:40 yrs ago foreign stuff started showing up on the shelf right beside the american made product, tools as one example. The american consumer started making a choice it was not based on they did not have the money to buy either tool. They knew the american tool was better quality would last longer, but they made a decision that the cheaper tool was good enough to do what they wanted to do for less money, few people use there tools every day like a mechanic does. So the stores started stocking what was selling the most not whats setting on the shelf not sold. The american product was costing more to make our wage scale higher. So to stay in business or go under they simply had stuff made in foreign countries. Now today for many products that choice between american made or foreign is no longer even there and what is an american owned company claiming to be american made many are using foreign labor for part of the product. Only the american consumer had buying power there the ones that pulled the money out of there pocket and bought the foreign goods knowing full well it would put american workers out of a job, they simply did not care until now i guess when its there job gone lol. I was at a whataburger so when i left i looked at the cars parked outside counted 15. Two were new fords one old chevy car paint chipping off it and one older suburban rest were all Japanese cars. I have a cousin that's rich just one thing he owns is motorcycle dealership one of his products is yamaha. He confirmed for me that both yamaha and suzuki are being assembled in China, so the japanese are using there cheaper labor force. When i first heard that did not believe it being as Japan once invaded China. Last time i looked a toyota tacoma pickup assembled in Tijuana said so boldly on the window sticker. What was it back in the 60s american car companies put some assembly plants in mexico cheaper labor i suppose. We do have the highest corporate tax in the world doubt that's a positive on a decision to where some business will locate at.
=D> =D>
This is so true and up here its bad this way.
when I was 14 or 15 years old I started buying Sears Craftsman tool made in USA and did so for a long time as they had everything a snap on truck had as far as hand tools go but after about 10 to 12 years later they started having an "option" and while they had the craftsman name on them they were very badly made and broke all the time.
It became evident to me when I had a 24" flex bar that I owned for 10+ years till I broke the hex 1/2" drive and needed a replacement.
They gave me a complete new bar but it was not the same quality as what I had originally and it broke on the 2nd head bolt I tried to undo so I returned it for another and another till I asked for my original broke tool back as this all happened within a week. They offered me a refund on the purchase price of the original tool and they said the refund was from memory $42.95 which was about 1/3 the cost of the same tool from the US even with the exchange rate at the time.
I complained to the manager about it and told them to get me a replacement for my original tool of the same quality.
They did in the end but it took 6 weeks to get it and 35+ years later I still have it :D
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Re: counterfeit concerns

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ProPower engines wrote:
JoePorting wrote:I hope none of these parts make it to summit or jegs.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
TOO late they are there already [-o<
So you're saying that although you buy brand X with brand X's partnumber on it, they sell you brand Y in fake packaging and everything ?

To be honest I'm disappointed in the story Diego tells from Brazil (not personal Diego !). If the developing countries think it is necessary to have protectionistic measures, maybe we should take them as well and let the whole deal just explode.
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Re: counterfeit concerns

Post by Krooser »

Splitter wrote:
novadude wrote:
As one who works for a US business that manufactures / sells industrial products, I've noticed cheap knock-offs are much more accepted / commonplace in Canada than in the US. Not saying that is right or wrong, just an observation. Brand names / made in North America seem to carry much more weight in the US market. Canadian market seems more price driven.
Do you charge more for a product being exported to Canada, than you would for the same product sold in the US? I'd buy more American made products if I could afford them. For example, an intake that sells for $200 thru Summit costs around $350 by the time it hits my doorstep. Probably the same distance, or less, from Ohio to Manitoba as it is from Ohio to California. And the end cost to me is the same whether I buy it from a store in the US or Canada.
Wasn't NAFTA supoosed to change that? I think it's mostly to encourage zero traiffs from Mexico…

I used to haul 9' wide forged steel gears from Laredo to GE's wind turbine plant in Pensacola, FL. The gears were made in Mexico while GE advertised there wind turbines were Amercian made…

You Canucks really get the shaft on tariffs… When I used to sell a lot on FleaBay I always shipped to Canada with the Postal Service and everything was a gift….
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Re: counterfeit concerns

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Belgian1979 wrote:
ProPower engines wrote:
JoePorting wrote:I hope none of these parts make it to summit or jegs.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
TOO late they are there already [-o<
So you're saying that although you buy brand X with brand X's partnumber on it, they sell you brand Y in fake packaging and everything ?

To be honest I'm disappointed in the story Diego tells from Brazil (not personal Diego !). If the developing countries think it is necessary to have protectionistic measures, maybe we should take them as well and let the whole deal just explode.

YUP
And the big issue is ebay itself. The world is now a very very small place for commerce these days with discounted shipping and the internet makes every market have the potential to have been flooded with counterfeit copies of everything.
They do not do any like checking for country of origin of the manufacture.
Unless there are specific complaints made they are free to keep selling but we all know that a user name can be changed so easily and that computers are everywhere its a never ending problem to control cyber related issues.

I had a guy here last week with a turbo for an import engine that looked like a US made piece but was an off shore copy and the packaging was almost identical with the exception of the print which while it looked very very close but was off enough when compared to the real product packaging. It was slightly wider print and the translation of real the instructions was the dead give away as the wording annunciation differed. If they used a language check system more often most would never know they were had. And the stainless hardware was rusting [-X
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Re: counterfeit concerns

Post by BrazilianZ28Camaro »

Belgian1979 wrote:
To be honest I'm disappointed in the story Diego tells from Brazil (not personal Diego !). If the developing countries think it is necessary to have protectionistic measures, maybe we should take them as well and let the whole deal just explode.
Its all good Yves, all Brazilians are very disapointed with our politcs too....imagine when I see a new Camaro and I say to my self: a regular worker can buy this car in other Countries without problem, but overhere a regular worker can't afford a set of new tires for it without starve for some months because they are imported and are heavily taxed .. #-o

Fact is, we pay big money for less that top notch products made here, this same money go to the gov and corporations. The protectionism isn't for all products we import,probably the amount of taxes billed in each type of product have a "hand" from the manufacturers to decide the percent. The govern will take a decision that will be more profitable to them. Guess who pay the bill?

About the chinese parts poluting the rest of the Wolrd, I have to say that ALL enterprises are going to install plants into the china to survive into the global market unless they have a very faithfull customers or a way to make the foreign parts not as atractive ($) to the uniformed customer.

I'd would never buy a china carburator instad of a Holley per example, because I do know that the cheap is aways costly in the long run. If more than say, 50% of the Holley customers think otherwise holley would be making their carbs overseas to lower the price and attend the "new" market demand, I bet, and its pretty sad to see some reliable brand names slowly going downhill in quality to lower costs or increase profits.
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Re: counterfeit concerns

Post by punisher »

Anyone remember McLaren-Mercedes F1 and the counterfeit transmission bearings? I think it happened about 15 years ago. The bearings lasted about 2/3 of race and came apart. If counterfeits can make it into an F1 car, and past their quality control procedures, it doesn't bode well for us.
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Re: counterfeit concerns

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Yes bearings are easy to copy. I got some 6203DU NSK bearings not to be confused with SKF that are made in USA and of four of the ones I got today one was from china and the packaging is not the same on all the box's. I called the warehouse about it and they told me their comptroller ordered from a new distributor of them and there may be an issue and guys are being asked to return them.
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Re: counterfeit concerns

Post by roadrunner »

The more "mature" guys on this forum will easily remember the days before mobile phones were popular, if your daily driver broke down....you fixed it on the side of the road and kept going, nowdays if your computerised d.d. breaks down you jump onto the mobile and call the appropriate "breakdown service", and the car gets trucked to the nearest dealer while you get either a free hire car or taxi to get you home. Mobile phones have made cheap imported products more acceptable, you no longer need the reliability/fixableness that we had in the (mostly) 70's/80's/90's. I don't want to rely on a breakdown service, I want quality, the problem is that my wage doesn't usually allow me to buy the best quality, even if I could pick the difference between a Garret turbo and the counterfeits. At the end of the day, policies which could protect us from counterfeits are the responsibility of our "elected representatives", who get into office through being "sponsored" /supported by "industrial interests". It's not about what's good for you or me.
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Re: counterfeit concerns

Post by adam728 »

This thread has a lot of contradictions. Cannot afford quality parts, so we are stuck buying the cheap inports we can afford. But then cheap imports should be taxed/tariffed into oblivion. So do we want access to lower quality parts as an option, or should it be to good stuff or nothing?

I do understand this started as a counterfeit discussion, and agree that blatent misrepresentation needs squashed.
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Re: counterfeit concerns

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ProPower engines wrote:Yes bearings are easy to copy. I got some 6203DU NSK bearings not to be confused with SKF that are made in USA and of four of the ones I got today one was from china and the packaging is not the same on all the box's.
NSK is a Japanese based company with bearing manufacturing plants around the world, it's Chinese plants accounting for a fair proportion of it's output. Chances are the bearings are genuine if traceable, and I'd certainly expect slight differences in packaging from source country to source country, at least if what I've seen is representative.

SKF is a Swedish based company with........

I wouldn't automatically confuse global manufacturing policies with counterfeit products.
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Re: counterfeit concerns

Post by user-9613590 »

Chinese would do just what you want;you want the absolutely cheapest product you will get it!
Specify something better and also check it (so tho producer see and understand you want a quality) and you get it.
Very big portion of worlds "top quality" brands are made in China;they just don't advertise it.
An example:Led lenser headlight.I bought one from china.One locally purchaced cost something over 60€ when the free shipping look a like was 8,60€ Nobody haven't been able tell the difference between them (exep the fact the cheapo read "Led headlight" on the headband and the brightness lever worked opposite direction (that way it's not a copy)) Absolutely they are same material,finish,light brightness and feel.In fact the real one brigthness lever broke..
I am sure that they come from same production line.So,"The Brand" is just priced itself out from competition.Paying 7 times more of "Brand" is the way things are going.Huge profits are the most important thing but drive consumers to buy the copies.
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Re: counterfeit concerns

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BCjohnny wrote:
ProPower engines wrote:Yes bearings are easy to copy. I got some 6203DU NSK bearings not to be confused with SKF that are made in USA and of four of the ones I got today one was from china and the packaging is not the same on all the box's.
NSK is a Japanese based company with bearing manufacturing plants around the world, it's Chinese plants accounting for a fair proportion of it's output. Chances are the bearings are genuine if traceable, and I'd certainly expect slight differences in packaging from source country to source country, at least if what I've seen is representative.

SKF is a Swedish based company with........

I wouldn't automatically confuse global manufacturing policies with counterfeit products.

They were not as ordered the off shore bearing had less rollers in it then the one with USA on the grease seal and when compared to the original bearing its the same as the US bearing.

This is on a non critical location on one of my Delta pressure test rigs which uses 4 bearings on the head setup fixture but the bearings are used to pivot and lift the head in the fixture.

In this case it will not make any difference but it is a speed bearing so in a different application it would but regardless of where it is made it should still have the same number of rollers in it when the same company located in china built it.

I understand that there is tons of china made parts and some better then others and made by companies set up there to save production costs by north american companies but this bearing is a mis-represented copy.
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Re: counterfeit concerns

Post by kirkwoodken »

Presently repairing a Stihl chainsaw for my son. 6203 crank bearings made in Turkey. Since they are holding up, I won't replace them with the Chinese bearings that came with the rebuild kit.
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Re: counterfeit concerns

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Don't get me wrong, the counterfeiting problem is a big one, that's why manufacturers are going to relatively expensive packaging solutions (holograms etc) to protect their product. Being cautious is sensible, but seeing monsters all around might just make you paranoid.......

IIRC the NSK 6203DU bearing has brown rubber side shields (it's a sealed 'RS' type bearing). I've used hundreds of them, over about 30 years, luckily for me mostly British made. Sounds like you've pulled the side shields off to check, if you've counted the balls.......?
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Re: counterfeit concerns

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BCjohnny wrote:Don't get me wrong, the counterfeiting problem is a big one, that's why manufacturers are going to relatively expensive packaging solutions (holograms etc) to protect their product. Being cautious is sensible, but seeing monsters all around might just make you paranoid.......

IIRC the NSK 6203DU bearing has brown rubber side shields (it's a sealed 'RS' type bearing). I've used hundreds of them, over about 30 years, luckily for me mostly British made. Sounds like you've pulled the side shields off to check, if you've counted the balls.......?

That was what was done.
They confirmed today they ain't what they thought they were getting. Their Comptroller ordered from a different distributor and they pulled several apart this morning and confirmed with the manufacture that the roller count was never changed and they said as well some where off shore counterfeit bearings have been sub'd from their bearings by the distributor.
They are not saying if it was a known that they were off shore sub's or just a staff member unknowingly used them to fill an order from a different shelf [-o<
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