Top Fuel Horsepower
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Top Fuel Horsepower
In the August 1st issue of National Dragster there is an article by Patrick Hale about Top Fuel engines making 10,000 HP.
He got some data logger info from Lee Beard for Steve Torrence’s 3.775 @ 328.38 mph run. He made some calculations off the time slip and the logger data.
They said the car was about 50 lbs lighter at the finish line than the starting line due to the fuel burned in the run. 2320 lbs min weight.
The highest G force is about 2.5 sec into the run. (4.8 g)
Time into run = 1 sec
Engine RPM = 7890
Driveshaft RPM = 2775
G meter (g’s) = 3.75
Fuel flow (GPM) = 60.7
Manifold boost (PSI) = 47
Ignition Timing (deg) = 36.5
Total Aero Drag HP = 70
Clutch slippage HP = 4607
Inertia HP = 88
Acceleration HP = 2118
Friction HP = 178
Calculated Engine HP = 7061
Time into run = 2.5 sec
Engine RPM = 7075
Driveshaft RPM =6275
G meter (g’s) = 4.8
Fuel flow (GPM) = 82.5
Manifold boost (PSI) = 48.5
Ignition Timing (deg) = 60.5
Total Aero Drag HP = 1142
Clutch slippage HP = 1061
Inertia HP = 567
Acceleration HP = 5939
Friction HP = 661
Calculated Engine HP = 9371
Time into run = 3.775 sec
Engine RPM = 8425
Driveshaft RPM =8425
G meter (g’s) = 2.0
Fuel flow (GPM) = 82.5
Manifold boost (PSI) = 60.5
Ignition Timing (deg) = 51.0
Total Aero Drag HP = 2940
Clutch slippage HP = 0.0
Inertia HP = 628
Acceleration HP = 3519
Friction HP = 833
Calculated Engine HP = 7920
The time slip for the run:
60’ = 0.834 sec
330’ = 2.133
660’ = 3.034 @ 282.95 mph
1000’ = 3.775 @ 328.38 mph
The engines have some kind of ignition retard that acts like rev limiter at the end of the track.
Hale figured Antron Brown’s 3.071 ET was 10,100 HP.
I thought some of this data was pretty cool & amazing.
I rather see Pro Stock data, but I will take what I can get.
He got some data logger info from Lee Beard for Steve Torrence’s 3.775 @ 328.38 mph run. He made some calculations off the time slip and the logger data.
They said the car was about 50 lbs lighter at the finish line than the starting line due to the fuel burned in the run. 2320 lbs min weight.
The highest G force is about 2.5 sec into the run. (4.8 g)
Time into run = 1 sec
Engine RPM = 7890
Driveshaft RPM = 2775
G meter (g’s) = 3.75
Fuel flow (GPM) = 60.7
Manifold boost (PSI) = 47
Ignition Timing (deg) = 36.5
Total Aero Drag HP = 70
Clutch slippage HP = 4607
Inertia HP = 88
Acceleration HP = 2118
Friction HP = 178
Calculated Engine HP = 7061
Time into run = 2.5 sec
Engine RPM = 7075
Driveshaft RPM =6275
G meter (g’s) = 4.8
Fuel flow (GPM) = 82.5
Manifold boost (PSI) = 48.5
Ignition Timing (deg) = 60.5
Total Aero Drag HP = 1142
Clutch slippage HP = 1061
Inertia HP = 567
Acceleration HP = 5939
Friction HP = 661
Calculated Engine HP = 9371
Time into run = 3.775 sec
Engine RPM = 8425
Driveshaft RPM =8425
G meter (g’s) = 2.0
Fuel flow (GPM) = 82.5
Manifold boost (PSI) = 60.5
Ignition Timing (deg) = 51.0
Total Aero Drag HP = 2940
Clutch slippage HP = 0.0
Inertia HP = 628
Acceleration HP = 3519
Friction HP = 833
Calculated Engine HP = 7920
The time slip for the run:
60’ = 0.834 sec
330’ = 2.133
660’ = 3.034 @ 282.95 mph
1000’ = 3.775 @ 328.38 mph
The engines have some kind of ignition retard that acts like rev limiter at the end of the track.
Hale figured Antron Brown’s 3.071 ET was 10,100 HP.
I thought some of this data was pretty cool & amazing.
I rather see Pro Stock data, but I will take what I can get.
"I promise you Sheriff, I won't throw one more rock... Didn't say nothin' 'bout no brick!" --Ernest T Bass
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Re: Top Fuel Horsepower
Blow your mind stuff in every way!
You can cut a man's tongue from his mouth, but that does not mean he’s a liar, it just shows that you fear the truth he might speak about you!
Re: Top Fuel Horsepower
Dang, 60 degrees of ignition advance, that nitro burns slow.
I run 41 degrees of ignition advance on alcohol. I guess that other 19 degrees is where the other 9000HP is, lol.
I run 41 degrees of ignition advance on alcohol. I guess that other 19 degrees is where the other 9000HP is, lol.
Re: Top Fuel Horsepower
Correction:
Hale figured Antron Brown’s 3.071 ET was 10,100 HP.
Hale figured Antron Brown’s 3.701 ET was 10,100 HP.
Hale figured Antron Brown’s 3.071 ET was 10,100 HP.
Hale figured Antron Brown’s 3.701 ET was 10,100 HP.
60 degrees @ 48 psi boost!noice wrote:Dang, 60 degrees of ignition advance, that nitro burns slow.
I run 41 degrees of ignition advance on alcohol. I guess that other 19 degrees is where the other 9000HP is, lol.
"I promise you Sheriff, I won't throw one more rock... Didn't say nothin' 'bout no brick!" --Ernest T Bass
Re: Top Fuel Horsepower
I read something else today that might be noteworthy.
Lee Beard had actual wind tunnel data at 300 mph for the front and rear wings.
At sea level conditions, the wings provide 5,661 lbs of extra downforce at 300 mph.
The drag the wings would create tends to make the total aero drag of 2940 horsepower at 328 mph more believable.
Lee Beard had actual wind tunnel data at 300 mph for the front and rear wings.
At sea level conditions, the wings provide 5,661 lbs of extra downforce at 300 mph.
The drag the wings would create tends to make the total aero drag of 2940 horsepower at 328 mph more believable.
"I promise you Sheriff, I won't throw one more rock... Didn't say nothin' 'bout no brick!" --Ernest T Bass
Re: Top Fuel Horsepower
The most amazing part to me (if the data is accurate) is it's still pulling 2g's at 328 MPH. 2g's is the launch on a 9 second run.
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Re: Top Fuel Horsepower
Kill people77cruiser wrote:Amazing!! What could they do in a full 1/4 mile with no min. weight?
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Re: Top Fuel Horsepower
As I understand it, nitro only needs 2% extra oxygen for complete combustion, and the blower isn't actually needed for supplying extra air as much as for supplying extra compression heat to vaporize the large quantity of fuel. Is this correct? Also, these engines are fuel cooled. Is that correct? How much extra fuel is consumed in cooling? The 60 degrees spark lead is what is required to light a large load of slow burning nitro. Looks like ignition retard is used for traction control. I have heard Shumacher (Sp.) uses (consumes) 400 cranks in a season.
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Re: Top Fuel Horsepower
We know that, it was a what if not what will question.dstaff wrote:Kill people77cruiser wrote:Amazing!! What could they do in a full 1/4 mile with no min. weight?
Jim
Re: Top Fuel Horsepower
I think the data is accurate. Just a little hard to believe.woody b wrote:The most amazing part to me (if the data is accurate) is it's still pulling 2g's at 328 MPH. 2g's is the launch on a 9 second run.
Patrick Hale has a Masters Degree in Mechanical Engineering, and is or was a drag racer himself, so I think he wold be very good at sniffing out bad data.
"I promise you Sheriff, I won't throw one more rock... Didn't say nothin' 'bout no brick!" --Ernest T Bass
Re: Top Fuel Horsepower
First off, I know almost nothing about nitromethane. I googled the fuel ratio.kirkwoodken wrote:As I understand it, nitro only needs 2% extra oxygen for complete combustion, and the blower isn't actually needed for supplying extra air as much as for supplying extra compression heat to vaporize the large quantity of fuel. Is this correct? Also, these engines are fuel cooled. Is that correct? How much extra fuel is consumed in cooling? The 60 degrees spark lead is what is required to light a large load of slow burning nitro. Looks like ignition retard is used for traction control. I have heard Shumacher (Sp.) uses (consumes) 400 cranks in a season.
In theory, the ideal fuel air ratio for nitro is 1.7:1. I wouldn’t expect they run at that though. (Gas is 14.7:1 but nobody runs that for power )
If you did assume 1.7:1 though, each cylinder of the 500" engine would only burn 0.63 cc of fuel per cylinder firing at 100% VE. ( If my math is right) (nitro is 1.137 g/cc, it would sink in water )
I don’t see how they could they could burn enough fuel to make that power without getting the compressed air in there to burn it with.
I know they do waste lots, you see it burning in the pipes with just a little cloud overcast, but I think they need more than just heat from the blower.
"I promise you Sheriff, I won't throw one more rock... Didn't say nothin' 'bout no brick!" --Ernest T Bass
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Re: Top Fuel Horsepower
Neither do I but I have a request to add it to my simulator and has learnt a few things:MrBo wrote:First off, I know almost nothing about nitromethane
1. Nitromethane needs almost no extra oxygen to burn completely so they can run very rich - I have heard of AFRs of 1:1 but could not confirm it. I can run that in the updated simulator.
2. The evaporative cooling is huge at that or similar AFRs.
3. The increase in density makes normal combustion modeling fall flat on its face.
The engine I am simulating is a N/A alcohol dragster with a roughly 7l engine and they claim around 3000hp at 6000rpm and after lots of new evaporation and burning models I can predict this value. It still requires testing to make sure I am not fooling myself but so far the results lead me to believe the values as calculated by Patrick Hale.
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Re: Top Fuel Horsepower
MrBo wrote:I think the data is accurate. Just a little hard to believe.woody b wrote:The most amazing part to me (if the data is accurate) is it's still pulling 2g's at 328 MPH. 2g's is the launch on a 9 second run.
Patrick Hale has a Masters Degree in Mechanical Engineering, and is or was a drag racer himself, so I think he wold be very good at sniffing out bad data.
I didn't mean to imply the data was bad....just felt the need to throw "if the data is accurate" in there. That's a bunch of horsepower, and g's.
Regarding weight, I doubt weight is much of an issue....... but what about gear? I don't know what or if there's a gear rule now, but decades ago NHRA mandated something like a 3.20 gear. They were running 2.70's at the time. Apparently a higher gear will load the engine more, resulting in lower ET's and higher MPH. The calculated HP is quite a bit higher at 7000 rpm than at 8000. If (a big if) they could hook it up, with a gear and clutch set up to keep the RPM around 7000 for most of the run imagine what it would run.
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Re: Top Fuel Horsepower
77cruiser wrote:Amazing!! What could they do in a full 1/4 mile with no min. weight?
You know what they say....drag racers will persue the quickest time up to the point the right pedal means instant death, so they should have some limitations imposed.
'71 Z28 street strip car
Pump gas All motor SBC 427
3308 lbs-29x10.5 Hoosiers
NEW BEST ET
1.38 60' / 4.05 330' / 6.32@111.25mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99p13UK ... ture=share
Pump gas All motor SBC 427
3308 lbs-29x10.5 Hoosiers
NEW BEST ET
1.38 60' / 4.05 330' / 6.32@111.25mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99p13UK ... ture=share