Head porter recommendation: TA Performance Rover V8 heads

[Daniel Jones]

I'm looking for a cylinder head porter to port a set of TA Performance Rover V8 heads. Any recommendations? Since these heads are relatively new to the market, there aren't any CNC routines available so I'm looking for someone that does hand porting. These will most likely be run on a 4.2L cross-bolted main Rover V8 (3.7" bore) with a solid flat tappet cam and a Wilpower single plane intake manifold. The intake is set up with injector bungs and the plan is to convert the car (1980 Triumph TR8) to fuel injection.

It's strictly a street toy and I expect to be shifting no higher than 7000 RPM. In case you're not familiar with it, the Rover V8 is a descendant of the 1961 to 1963 Buick 215 aluminum V8.

Excerpt from the TA Performance catalog:

"TA Performance is introducing our new Buick 215 / Rover V8 aluminum cylinder heads. Based upon our V6 cylinder head, these heads are a great improvement over the factory and other aftermarket Rover cylinder heads. These heads are nearly identical to our Buick V6 heads with the exception of an added cylinder. The overall design remains the same.

The major area of improvement in the performance of these heads is the larger intake ports. Being that it is based off of our V6 heads, the intake ports are essentially the same. With porting, preliminary tests yielded 270+ cfm on the intake and 180 cfm on the exhaust ports. In addition, the valve angle has been adjusted to 13 degrees to put the valves on the center line of the bore which allows for the use of larger valves, up to 2.02 intake and 1.60 exhaust. The exhaust ports have also been raised to help improve performance. The Rover heads also feature a 1.850-1.900 valve spring install height which allows for the use of higher lift cams.

Another feature that was incorporated during the design is the new combustion chamber shape. Factory 215/Rover heads feature a D shaped combustion chamber. The new TA 215/Rover head features a Heart shaped combustion chamber found on all high performance cylinder heads, including our V6 and big block heads. This results in better combustion, due to the decrease in the possibility of detonation, which increases performance. The chamber and deck thickness was also increased to at least 5/8 or thicker. This makes the heads stronger so they can handle more power without flexing and cracking, a potential problem on high horsepower or forced induction engines. The valve cover rail has also been raised to make way for additional material which gives you the ability to raise the intake ports to make it a tall port head. Accessory bolt hole patterns for both the Buick 215 and 14 bolt Rover heads have also been incorporated so that the heads fit the Buick 215, early 14 bolt Rover blocks and the later 10 bolt Rover blocks."

TA claims they flow approximately 225 CFM intake and 140 exhaust out-of-the box for the assembled heads. Mine are bare castings with seats and guides. I've verified a set of 1.94"/1.6" diameter valves from a set of AFR 165cc SBF heads fit in the combustion chamber. They also take stud mount SBC rockers (1.65:1 ratio suggested).

Thanks,
Dan Jones
St. Louis, MO USA

[900HP]

There are several places you could try. I myself like Chad Speier at Speier Racing Heads (785) 623-0963 or Nick Smithberg at Smithberg Racing (402) 616-7643 you can't go wrong with either choice.

[user-3597028]

Contact Frank at Advanced Performance. He does most of our port work including Buick T/A heads. He's never failed to deliver on any of our projects, from common BBC drag race heads to big diesel pulling heads.

http://www.get-ap.com

[user-3597028]

There are several places you could try. I myself like Chad Speier at Speier Racing Heads (785) 623-0963 or Nick Smithberg at Smithberg Racing (402) 616-7643 you can't go wrong with either choice.

I will say that Nick Smithberg provides excellent service as well. He's very innovative with some really off the wall combinations.

[pdq67]

I am NOT trying to sell my 215 Buick AFB intake, BUT if you are interested in it let me know. Probably let you have it for shipping costs so that it will at least have a useful home!

pdq67

[MarkR]

Try Bill Jones...or Joel Dubose

[T-flow]

Let me know if I can help you out, Im will and able. Chad & Nick can also do a great job for you.

Good Luck, looks like a very cool project.

[ijames]

Nick Micale in Phoenix (http://www.arizonagn.com) works closely with TA and has probably used as many sets of the V6 heads as anyone. You could contact him and see who he likes for porting. I bought a set from him several years ago (no, the motor isn't together, I'm slow) and had them flowed at a local shop. They got noisy and flow went down between .450 and .5 on the intakes. I had their porter do some bowl work, mostly short side radius, and they stopped backing up, to at least .6", and got quiet. Flow was 244 cfm at .5 and 258 cfm at .6" after so I was really happy. Here's a thread where a three of us posted results: http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/thread ... re.154182/ Both of theirs are port matched to the Felpro 1400/1200 gaskets (the eliminator heads) while mine are matched to stock gaskets (intimidator heads), so their intake ports are .1-.15 wider and maybe .1 taller from flange down to bowl. maybe that's why theirs didn't back up as cast, the extra width kept the velocity just low enough? They are shooting for 800+ rwhp (Stu, mid 9's on a stock block) and 1000+ rwhp (gnxtc, low 8's on a TA block), while I'm shooting for 550ish rwhp on a stock block at lower rpm and lift, and I had this silly idea that velocity was a good thing so I thought I'd start small on the csa. I can always open them up later, if I ever put the motor together and then want to experiment. We all had 1.94" intakes and 1.60" exhaust valves.

Anyway, just some comparison info for you since TA says the V8 head is a copy of the V6 head. I do know that as heavy as my V6 heads are you will be surprised the first time you pick up one of the V8 heads. Lots of aluminum there.

[jed]

I will second Bill Jones.
If I remember right Bill Jones has done some of the 215 heads.
He is a member and poster regularly give him a PM.

[wyrmrider]

who ports their V6 heads
who has a cnc for the V6 head?

[flyingwedge]

I took a bare, Rover TA head to "Brice Mulvey. I had him do sonic testing for port wall thicknesses. He suggested epoxy of approx .5" on the intake floors, raise roof approx .75", grind away "bolt bump", in runner, leaving bolt exposed,(as be does with bbc heads). He also stated to run alcohol, the ports needed to be approx 30% larger, than gasolene, because of the volume diplacement. I wish him well-but getting lots of print, in Engine Masters Mag, doesn't guarrantee succsess. Dan, I hope one day, you try that roller cam. Cheers, flyingwedge.

[Daniel Jones]

> Anyway, just some comparison info for you since TA says the V8 head is a copy of the V6 head. I do know that as heavy as my V6 heads are you will be surprised the first time you pick up one of the V8 heads. Lots of aluminum there.

I'll weigh one of the heads this week. The Buick semi die cast 215 heads are lighter than the sand cast Rover heads. One of my Buick 300 heads weighed in at 13 lbs bare.

> who ports their V6 heads? who has a cnc for the V6 head?

To my eyes, the heads don't look that close to the later Buick V6. The Buick 215/Buick 300/Rover ports are more like the early Buick V6 heads, not the post-1979 Buick V6 heads.

> I am NOT trying to sell my 215 Buick AFB intake, BUT if you are interested in it let me know.

Private message sent. Let me know if you see it. It's in my outbox instead of my "sent messages" but I'm not sure if that is normal.

> Here's a thread where a three of us posted results: http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/thread ... re.154182/

Thanks for the link. My maximum lift will likely be in the 0.544" range, less lash so those numbers are relevant.

> He suggested epoxy of approx .5" on the intake floors, raise roof approx .75", grind away "bolt bump", in runner, leaving bolt exposed,

That's more radical than I plan on going for this strictly street car. I'm willing to port the heads and intake as a pair but absolutely no epoxy.

> Dan, I hope one day, you try that roller cam.

I'm saving that for the other Rover V8 (lower RPM 5.0L displacement), assuming that engine checks out. Plans are to swap on the ported Buick 300 aluminum heads (200 CFM intake, 150 CFM exhaust @ 0.5") to get the compression down to something that will run on pump gas and run the Huffaker intake. Lots of unknowns on that engine so plans may change when we open it up. If the TA Rover heads are back from porting in time, we can run them against the set of ported OEM Rover heads that are currently on the engine.

So the list of guys to contact looks like:

Jon Carls at JDC Engineering (did my Buick 300 heads)
Chad Speier at Speier Racing Heads (785) 623-0963
Nick Smithberg at Smithberg Racing (402) 616-7643
Frank at Advanced Performance http://www.get-ap.com
Bill Jones Phone: 801-969-3807 (after 9:30 AM & before 9:30 PM MST)
Joel Dubose JDE Heads & Manifolds
T-flow www.tflowheads.com
Nick Micale in Phoenix (http://www.arizonagn.com) - contact for recommendation

Thanks!
Dan Jones

[flyingwedge]

To my mind, the TA heads look more like 302 Ford, aftermarket heads, with no similarity to Stage II Buick V6,(shame). Epoxy filling intake ports, would be my very, last resort. Onward, flyingwedge.

[DCarr511]

I've never meet anyone who pays as much attention to every little detail as Bill Jones does.

[ijames]

To my mind, the TA heads look more like 302 Ford, aftermarket heads, with no similarity to Stage II Buick V6,(shame). Epoxy filling intake ports, would be my very, last resort. Onward, flyingwedge.

The TA V6 heads were not meant to look like the stage II heads, they were meant as improved stock replacement heads as far as port layout and sizing and location, to compete against the other aftermarket aluminum heads in current production (GN1's by Champion). Valves are ei ie ei like the stock heads, not ei ei ei like the stage II heads, they bolt up to the stock intake and exhaust manifolds, and work with the stock cam layout. Before the stage II heads Buick did an improved stock head they called the stage I, in cast iron, that they dropped after coming out with the aluminum stage II heads (actually, they cast some of those in cast iron as well). M&A bought the design and patterns from Buick and cast the stage I head in aluminum for a few years, with minor improvements as they went along trying to fix the cracking and porosity problems they had. Don't know when they stopped production, maybe mid-90s, but Champion came out with their all-new stock style aluminum head then. The GN1s have gone through several generations of strengthening and improvements, and they have sold a bunch of them over the years. I have heard that TA bought the design from M&A, and I've heard that their head is a clean design; I don't know the right story. I do know that they worked closely with Kenny Duttweiler and some other top builders for a few years after they cast their first prototypes to improve and strengthen their head, and they started shipping maybe 2007 or 2008. In the turbo Buick world, so far one guy has dipped into the 8's on stock iron heads (and a stock 3.8 block!!), several guys have gone at least 8.50's with the GN1's on 4.1 stage II or TA aluminum blocks and 8.8's on a stock 3.8 block, at least two into the 7's with the TA heads on 4.1 stage II or TA aluminum blocks, and several under 7.60 with the Buick stage II heads on 4.1 stage II blocks (Gallina is the quickest I know of, high 6's on methanol). I don't know if a GN1 head has been in the 7's yet, but I don't keep up as well as I did. It used to be that everyone in the 8's on GN1's had a collection of cracked and broken heads (except one friend of mine who logged at least 500 8 sec passes on one set before his first crack), but after the last couple rounds of improvements they seem to be reliable in the mid 8's. I've yet to hear of a cracked or broken TA head, but again to be fair I haven't kept up as closely as I used to since my friend quit racing the TSO class at Buick events. The shipping weight on my pair of assembled TA V6 heads, including two steel rocker shaft mounts that weigh maybe 3 lbs total and the cardboard box which can't be more than 2 lbs, was 52 lbs. That means each assembled head weighs about 23.5 lbs. Oh, Dan, I think TA themselves offer CNC porting on the V6 heads, too.