What is the best oil for flat tappet solid with high/press

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

Erland Cox
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3266
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:46 pm
Location: Lund in Sweden
Contact:

Re: What is the best oil for flat tappet solid with high/pre

Post by Erland Cox » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:42 pm

I have heard that motorcycle oils have extreme pressure additives because the oil also is used in the gear box and that this should be good for flat tappets.
I have also heard that Vokswagens with direct injection need special EP oil because the injectors take so much cam space that the lobes are too narrow.
This pupedüse oil is supposed to work very well with flat tappets.
Both the oil types above are syntetics.
Has anyone tested this?

Erland

lorax
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1778
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:00 am

Re: What is the best oil for flat tappet solid with high/pre

Post by lorax » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:08 pm

Erland Cox wrote:I have heard that motorcycle oils have extreme pressure additives because the oil also is used in the gear box and that this should be good for flat tappets.
I have also heard that Vokswagens with direct injection need special EP oil because the injectors take so much cam space that the lobes are too narrow.
This pupedüse oil is supposed to work very well with flat tappets.
Both the oil types above are syntetics.
Has anyone tested this?

Erland
Aside from the above mentioned reasons, the EPA and ILSAC have no input or demands for MC oils, SO FAR! Same can be said for oils sold a marine oils. Lucas' marine is excellent stuff very similar to Brad Penn and Schaeffer.

I can't think of anything that has more metal to metal contact under extreme pressure than a M/C, or have to deal with greater heat.
I don't necessarily put any of them above a GOOD racing oil(not to be confused with a label that says "racing"), but off the shelf from the big box retailers, they are probably the best oils in the store.

plovett
Expert
Expert
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:49 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: What is the best oil for flat tappet solid with high/pre

Post by plovett » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:21 pm

clevo wrote:540 RAT,
It would have been nice if you had done testing on some breakin oils, you got me thinking how much wear protection the Gibbs BR-30 has :?:
The Gibbs BR30 can't have good wear protection because it according to it's website it, "provides the highest levels of zinc and phosphorus for flat-tappet engines." :P

JMO,

paulie

Grocerius Maximus
Pro
Pro
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:08 pm

Re: What is the best oil for flat tappet solid with high/pre

Post by Grocerius Maximus » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:29 pm

Turbocharger ramp style thrust bearings are the canary in a coal mine for extreme pressure/heat and marginal oils. Mobil 1 off-the shelf on-highway is a definite fail. Fully instrumented car/turbo including oil temp in and out, and a very small fast thermocouple about 1mm from the edge of the thrust brg that got oil flung on it, soon as you hit a good amount of load the oil temp delta from inlet to thrust brg exit would go from 0 to 60-100F. Same thrust bearing used for two years on a variety of test turbos lasted 2 years with Penn 20-50 without loss of boundary lube and heat marks, probably 600 dyno pulls plus miles and 1/4 miles. FOUR dyno pulls on Mobil One 15w-50 and it went metal to metal.

A HUGE common denominator (80% plus) in low mile failed thrust brgs + Mobil 1 led us to this test.

Mobil 1 = FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL

User avatar
af2
Guru
Guru
Posts: 6263
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:42 pm
Location: Grass Valley, CA :Northern Foothills

Re: What is the best oil for flat tappet solid with high/pre

Post by af2 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:46 pm

Erland Cox wrote:I have heard that motorcycle oils have extreme pressure additives because the oil also is used in the gear box and that this should be good for flat tappets.
I have also heard that Vokswagens with direct injection need special EP oil because the injectors take so much cam space that the lobes are too narrow.
This pupedüse oil is supposed to work very well with flat tappets.
Both the oil types above are syntetics.
Has anyone tested this?

Erland
As far as motorcycle that is all I run. Just because Rat never mentioned them and they are very good.
GURU is only a name.
Adam

lorax
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1778
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:00 am

Re: What is the best oil for flat tappet solid with high/pre

Post by lorax » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:00 pm

Grocerius Maximus wrote:Turbocharger ramp style thrust bearings are the canary in a coal mine for extreme pressure/heat and marginal oils. Mobil 1 off-the shelf on-highway is a definite fail. Fully instrumented car/turbo including oil temp in and out, and a very small fast thermocouple about 1mm from the edge of the thrust brg that got oil flung on it, soon as you hit a good amount of load the oil temp delta from inlet to thrust brg exit would go from 0 to 60-100F. Same thrust bearing used for two years on a variety of test turbos lasted 2 years with Penn 20-50 without loss of boundary lube and heat marks, probably 600 dyno pulls plus miles and 1/4 miles. FOUR dyno pulls on Mobil One 15w-50 and it went metal to metal.

A HUGE common denominator (80% plus) in low mile failed thrust brgs + Mobil 1 led us to this test.

Mobil 1 = FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL
Turbos are the holy Grail of heat and pressure.
paraffin based Pennsylvania type grude has been the bench mark lube for over a century. Still the best conventional base stock to blend with a synthetic. Synthetics are not the be all and end all some people try to label them.

For decades sperm whale oil was an additive in all automatic transmission fluids. When they stopped the hunting of sperm whales, the oil companies scrambled for a replacement. For the next 5 years or so, the failures of new car automatics was at a record high until they finally worked out, which is what led to some of the new ATF out there compared to 2 just a few years ago.

Some things in nature are just hard to beat.

Post Reply