Freezing cam bearings before installation?

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BrazilianZ28Camaro
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Freezing cam bearings before installation?

Postby BrazilianZ28Camaro » Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:16 pm

Hello Gents,

I was reading article wich a Clevite engineer reccomended to install cam bearings DRY without oil or any other lubricant.

I always install cam bearings with a light coat of engine oil on the block and on the bearing to avoid galling. Probably the engineer suggest dry instalation to reduce the risk of bearing spin on its bore on initial startup or ???

That said, I'd like to hear your comments about dry bearing installation. Would be a good idea freeze them to make the installation easier and trouble free in this case?

Thanks
'71 Z28 Pro-Street Camaro
Pump gas -T-ram - All motor SBC 427"
3308 lbs- leaf spring/Caltrac Car
28x10 Hoosiers
New best 1/8 mile ET
1.45 60' / 4.16 330' / 6.45@108.75mph

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Re: Freezing cam bearings before installation?

Postby Cubic_Cleveland » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:00 pm

I never install cam bearings dry either. What method for installing the dry bearings did the article state? I don't think they would suggest it to reduce the chance of the bearing spinning, that is what the crush for is for.

I have never thought about shrink fitting cam bearings, would also be interested to know if anybody has done it. Can't see why it wouldn't work apart from doing something unwanted to the bearing material??

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Re: Freezing cam bearings before installation?

Postby BigBro74 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:08 pm

Funny, I never have put any oil on cam bearings before installing them and never really thought to do so :( . Jason

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Re: Freezing cam bearings before installation?

Postby Strange Magic » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:37 pm

I was reading article wich a Clevite engineer reccomended to install cam bearings DRY without oil or any other lubricant.


He's on crack and his products quality control just re-endorses it.
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Decisions on parts and advise should not be based on how much money a company can pour into marketing. This is a common mis-conception in the industry.

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Re: Freezing cam bearings before installation?

Postby Cubic_Cleveland » Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:05 pm

Strange Magic wrote:
I was reading article wich a Clevite engineer reccomended to install cam bearings DRY without oil or any other lubricant.


He's on crack and his products quality control just re-endorses it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Freezing cam bearings before installation?

Postby racear2865 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:09 pm

Ok--u can put my thoughts in with the many other quacks but my thoughts are that freezing a tri or 2 ply bearing could create a problem. You are freezing a dissimilar metal or semi metal bearing. Their rates of expansion and contraction may be totally different and you could get some separation of those dissimilar metals. I doubt if the engineers tested that. Hey man, just my thoughts.
reed

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Re: Freezing cam bearings before installation?

Postby victorymachine » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:01 am

BigBro74 wrote:Funny, I never have put any oil on cam bearings before installing them and never really thought to do so :( . Jason


Same here.....Also, never had any problems that I know of...

racear2865 wrote:Ok--u can put my thoughts in with the many other quacks but my thoughts are that freezing a tri or 2 ply bearing could create a problem. You are freezing a dissimilar metal or semi metal bearing. Their rates of expansion and contraction may be totally different and you could get some separation of those dissimilar metals. I doubt if the engineers tested that. Hey man, just my thoughts.
reed


Not picking on you reed, just more food for thought, but if we are talking an actual freezer (and not liquid nitrogen or CO2), then it's going to get colder than they are overnight here. :) Even colder up north, surely somebody thought about those bearings needing to withstand that?
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Re: Freezing cam bearings before installation?

Postby PackardV8 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:47 pm

racear2865 wrote:Ok--u can put my thoughts in with the many other quacks but my thoughts are that freezing a tri or 2 ply bearing could create a problem. You are freezing a dissimilar metal or semi metal bearing. Their rates of expansion and contraction may be totally different and you could get some separation of those dissimilar metals. I doubt if the engineers tested that. Hey man, just my thoughts. reed


Think about it. Say we take the bearing from 68 degrees to -10F. That's a 78 degree variance and one which it would see in most northern tier states every winter. Then, we run the engine pretty hard and it sees a 268-degree oil temp. That's a 280-degree variance. Pretty safe to say the engineers are comfortable with the tri-metal bearings hanging together over a 280-degree operating range.

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Re: Freezing cam bearings before installation?

Postby rfoll » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:12 pm

If I froze my bearings,I would never be able to remove my installation arbor. Maybe mine is a little larger than some, the snug fit helps alignment.
So much to do, so little time...

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Re: Freezing cam bearings before installation?

Postby GARY C » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:23 pm

racear2865 wrote:Ok--u can put my thoughts in with the many other quacks but my thoughts are that freezing a tri or 2 ply bearing could create a problem. You are freezing a dissimilar metal or semi metal bearing. Their rates of expansion and contraction may be totally different and you could get some separation of those dissimilar metals. I doubt if the engineers tested that. Hey man, just my thoughts.
reed

What do you think happens to bearings in every engine in every car is frozen climates?
Watch the first 2 minutes...they run the engine at full throttle for an hour than freeze it to 20 below then run it up over 200 degrees over and over.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jCmu6qJXX4#t=102

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Re: Freezing cam bearings before installation?

Postby racear2865 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:37 pm

Ok ,crap. yall have convinced me. Im gonna freeze mine from now on.
reed

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Re: Freezing cam bearings before installation?

Postby BrazilianZ28Camaro » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:56 pm

Cubic_Cleveland wrote:I never install cam bearings dry either. What method for installing the dry bearings did the article state? I don't think they would suggest it to reduce the chance of the bearing spinning, that is what the crush for is for.

I have never thought about shrink fitting cam bearings, would also be interested to know if anybody has done it. Can't see why it wouldn't work apart from doing something unwanted to the bearing material??



This is the quote that caught my attention:

"Before installing cam bearings, wipe all cam bores with a fast-drying solvent to create a clean and dry bore surface. Installation of cam bearings into the block must be done carefully to avoid shaving material from the outside diameter of the bearings. This galling action can easily cause a buildup of excess material between the bearing and the block's bearing bore, which will "squeeze" the bearing, resulting in oil clearance reduction at the bearing inside diameter"

Read more: http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/tec ... z2peqbmq4x


The article didn't state that the bearings itself must be dry, but the quote above gives that idea IMO.
'71 Z28 Pro-Street Camaro
Pump gas -T-ram - All motor SBC 427"
3308 lbs- leaf spring/Caltrac Car
28x10 Hoosiers
New best 1/8 mile ET
1.45 60' / 4.16 330' / 6.45@108.75mph

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Re: Freezing cam bearings before installation?

Postby BrazilianZ28Camaro » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:59 pm

racear2865 wrote:Ok ,crap. yall have convinced me. Im gonna freeze mine from now on.
reed



Yep, my idea was freezing the bearings into a refrigerator, say about -10° C and not with CO2 . That would make installation much safer wouldn't it?
'71 Z28 Pro-Street Camaro
Pump gas -T-ram - All motor SBC 427"
3308 lbs- leaf spring/Caltrac Car
28x10 Hoosiers
New best 1/8 mile ET
1.45 60' / 4.16 330' / 6.45@108.75mph

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Re: Freezing cam bearings before installation?

Postby BrazilianZ28Camaro » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:03 pm

BigBro74 wrote:Funny, I never have put any oil on cam bearings before installing them and never really thought to do so :( . Jason



Generally you want a lubricant anytime you assemble two parts with interference fit, or galling will be a sure bet.

Some gearbox bearings are frozen in liquid nitrogen before installation into the trans case to make things easier and avoid damage.
'71 Z28 Pro-Street Camaro
Pump gas -T-ram - All motor SBC 427"
3308 lbs- leaf spring/Caltrac Car
28x10 Hoosiers
New best 1/8 mile ET
1.45 60' / 4.16 330' / 6.45@108.75mph

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Re: Freezing cam bearings before installation?

Postby Cubic_Cleveland » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:09 pm

BrazilianZ28Camaro wrote:
This is the quote that caught my attention:

"Before installing cam bearings, wipe all cam bores with a fast-drying solvent to create a clean and dry bore surface. Installation of cam bearings into the block must be done carefully to avoid shaving material from the outside diameter of the bearings. This galling action can easily cause a buildup of excess material between the bearing and the block's bearing bore, which will "squeeze" the bearing, resulting in oil clearance reduction at the bearing inside diameter"

Read more: http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/tec ... z2peqbmq4x


The article didn't state that the bearings itself must be dry, but the quote above gives that idea IMO.

I agree that above quote is a bit unclear. Even though it doesn't say to, this is my reason to always lube the bearings : Installation of cam bearings into the block must be done carefully to avoid shaving material from the outside diameter of the bearing.
Deburring the bore and bearing plus lube goes along way to avoiding this.


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