engine assemply horsepower tricks/tips

[Orr89rocz]

Maybe i see things on the surface but to me engine assembly is bolting parts onto motor. All basic checks for dimensions should have been done during or post machine work and cleansing. Once everything is confirmed you can assemble. Cam degree and ptv are kinda done during assembly. Bottom end is in so that assembly is done, now cam check and ptv to be sure it all fits.
After that its all bolton and make sure trq specs are applied properly and things kept clean. Just my view

There can be several mockup points for pushrod lengths, valvetrain geometry, pushrod to head clearances, manifold to block/heads etc but some of that can also be considered pre assembly check

[dirtracr5]

Lifter bore sizing needs to be done at the machine shop. I dont know anyone that starts to assemble an engine THEN decides to check lifter bore size!

This need to be done before assemble.

Nice to see we agree on something...lol. Not sure what the name calling is all about?

[dirtracr5]

Maybe i see things on the surface but to me engine assembly is bolting parts onto motor. All basic checks for dimensions should have been done during or post machine work and cleansing. Once everything is confirmed you can assemble. Cam degree and ptv are kinda done during assembly. Bottom end is in so that assembly is done, now cam check and ptv to be sure it all fits.
After that its all bolton and make sure trq specs are applied properly and things kept clean. Just my view

There can be several mockup points for pushrod lengths, valvetrain geometry, pushrod to head clearances, manifold to block/heads etc but some of that can also be considered pre assembly check

I agree 100%. The talk about checking "wear" is something done well before assembly. If your machine shop knows what they are doing everything will be set. its just a matter of double checking and putting it together.

[Cubic_Cleveland]

Lifter bore sizing needs to be done at the machine shop. I dont know anyone that starts to assemble an engine THEN decides to check lifter bore size!

This need to be done before assemble any idiot except you knows this LOL. Most normal people will check and verify piston to wall clearance, main bearing clearance and check IF ABLE CHECK LIFTER BORE CLERANCE AS WELL.

Most guys that have blocks machined don't send lifters with the blocks and most jobber shops don't have the proper bore gauges to check bores with AND I have been to a lot of shops that do not do this PERIOD.

GEEEEE cylinders need to be bored and honed and most need line honing as well by the machine shop I don't know any one that starts to assemble and engine and then decides to check cylinders or main line DUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I DOUBT YOU CAN EVEN CHECK LIFTER BORE CLEARANCE LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Checking cam timing needs to be done before you check piston to valve, which should be done before balancing, which needs to be done before assembly. Checking lifter bore clearance should be done before you start all of this!

I've measure lifters and bores and set clearances, have YOU Carl??

Nothing has been mentioned about lifter sizing and lifter bore clearance.

Most companies that sell roller lifters like for a SBC or BBC I have found are .841 give or take .0005 and a GM lifter bore runs .844 and at .003 clearance that is to much. That being said OEM flat tappet lifters are .842 to.8423 and the same with Ford flat tappet lifters they measure .874 to .8743 and most roller lifters are .873 and Ford Lifter bores run right at .8755

As I have posted many times lifter bores should be checked for wear, size ETC.

All lifters have to be measured for roundness, taper and sizing.

I have seen to many times lifters in one set be off up to .0011 from low to high and have seen taper in new lifters. Lifters should be with .0003 on sizing in a set.

Lifter bores in used blocks should be checked for wear PERIOD. I have seen to many lifters that are scored on the sides do to much clearance and the bottom of the lifter bore acts as a cutting tool and the oil bleed off dumping down on the crank does hurt HP. Also having lifters rattling around in the bores will not help longevity.

I thought this topic was about engine assembly, not who's got the biggest lifter bore!

[CNC BLOCKS]

Lifter bore sizing needs to be done at the machine shop. I dont know anyone that starts to assemble an engine THEN decides to check lifter bore size!

This need to be done before assemble any idiot except you knows this LOL. Most normal people will check and verify piston to wall clearance, main bearing clearance and check IF ABLE CHECK LIFTER BORE CLERANCE AS WELL.

Most guys that have blocks machined don't send lifters with the blocks and most jobber shops don't have the proper bore gauges to check bores with AND I have been to a lot of shops that do not do this PERIOD.

GEEEEE cylinders need to be bored and honed and most need line honing as well by the machine shop I don't know any one that starts to assemble and engine and then decides to check cylinders or main line DUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I DOUBT YOU CAN EVEN CHECK LIFTER BORE CLEARANCE LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Checking cam timing needs to be done before you check piston to valve, which should be done before balancing, which needs to be done before assembly. Checking lifter bore clearance should be done before you start all of this!

I've measure lifters and bores and set clearances, have YOU Carl??

Nothing has been mentioned about lifter sizing and lifter bore clearance.

Most companies that sell roller lifters like for a SBC or BBC I have found are .841 give or take .0005 and a GM lifter bore runs .844 and at .003 clearance that is to much. That being said OEM flat tappet lifters are .842 to.8423 and the same with Ford flat tappet lifters they measure .874 to .8743 and most roller lifters are .873 and Ford Lifter bores run right at .8755

As I have posted many times lifter bores should be checked for wear, size ETC.

All lifters have to be measured for roundness, taper and sizing.

I have seen to many times lifters in one set be off up to .0011 from low to high and have seen taper in new lifters. Lifters should be with .0003 on sizing in a set.

Lifter bores in used blocks should be checked for wear PERIOD. I have seen to many lifters that are scored on the sides do to much clearance and the bottom of the lifter bore acts as a cutting tool and the oil bleed off dumping down on the crank does hurt HP. Also having lifters rattling around in the bores will not help longevity.

I thought this topic was about engine assembly, not who's got the biggest lifter bore!

If your reread my post I measure all lifters and set clearances accordingly, I take it you don't machine lifters Most guys like you don't measure lifters or bores and just dump them in the bores and call it good

Not what I posted at all but if you post about having the biggest lifter bores I would like to see that quote

[ParDeus]

This is why we have more lurkers than posters...

The above post is a perfect example. A guy with a few machines thinks that he is the only one who has this engine-building thing figured out...

Carl, I'm interested to hear what clearances you run in a Billet block w/o bushings, and one without any water-jackets? Say a 1.100 lifter for example?

[CNC BLOCKS]

This is why we have more lurkers than posters...

The above post is a perfect example. A guy with a few machines thinks that he is the only one who has this engine-building thing figured out...

Carl, I'm interested to hear what clearances you run in a Billet block w/o bushings, and one without any water-jackets? Say a 1.100 lifter for example?

I don't have any thing figured out you seem to have all the answers

I have more then a few machines LOL. Never worked on any billet blocks is it steel or aluminum as there is a difference between the 2

I am a guy with a few machines as you say so what do have for machines???????????? Back at ya.

[NORSK]

Why can't we keep it on topic?
There is plenty off other lame forums where those who want can join a pissing contest

[ParDeus]

I will defer, as to not muck this thread up anymore.

Horsepower tip: Sizing your lifters/bores at 210degF

Also, the right finish on spring seats can help high rpm apps live a little longer. Also make sure your retainers/locks fit properly. Profiling to gain contact area is usually needed.

[BlackKnight]

what bearing clearences would you guys recommend for a high reving (9500 rpm) small block ford? the oil i will be using is the same i always use, 5w30 synthetic and i would like to keep it as loose as possible. it's a 3.90 billet crank, grp alluminun rods and wiesco coated pistons. cam bearings are of course already installed, which are also coated race deals.

[KCS]

I think the question is probably best answered considering the guys that receive their parts from the machine shop, machining completed and clearances checked, ready for the guy at home that wants to assemble the engine himself. Not what YOU, the professional machinist or engine builder would do in your shop with access to the equipment to machine things as you see fit.

In another forum, I suggested reducing friction and parasitic losses as a goal in assembling the engine. Simple choices such as opting for smaller journals and narrow bearings to reduce friction. Also, in a stud mount rocker setup, playing with different pushrod lengths and the lift curve they produce could be another. On the LS stuff I build, I like to pinch in the dowels a little and use that wiggle room to move the head over a little to get the intake valve further away from the bore wall. That little .015" may not equate to much, but it all adds up.

[CNC BLOCKS]

I will defer, as to not muck this thread up anymore.

Horsepower tip: Sizing your lifters/bores at 210degF

Also, the right finish on spring seats can help high rpm apps live a little longer. Also make sure your retainers/locks fit properly. Profiling to gain contact area is usually needed.

So that would work in a marine application where water temp is under 145 degrees HMMMMMMMM

[CNC BLOCKS]

what bearing clearences would you guys recommend for a high reving (9500 rpm) small block ford? the oil i will be using is the same i always use, 5w30 synthetic and i would like to keep it as loose as possible. it's a 3.90 billet crank, grp alluminun rods and wiesco coated pistons. cam bearings are of course already installed, which are also coated race deals.

What is the application?

[BlackKnight]

what bearing clearences would you guys recommend for a high reving (9500 rpm) small block ford? the oil i will be using is the same i always use, 5w30 synthetic and i would like to keep it as loose as possible. it's a 3.90 billet crank, grp alluminun rods and wiesco coated pistons. cam bearings are of course already installed, which are also coated race deals.

What is the application?

All out drag racing. Mostly 1/4 mile but some 1/8.

[ParDeus]

I will defer, as to not muck this thread up anymore.

Horsepower tip: Sizing your lifters/bores at 210degF

Also, the right finish on spring seats can help high rpm apps live a little longer. Also make sure your retainers/locks fit properly. Profiling to gain contact area is usually needed.

So that would work in a marine application where water temp is under 145 degrees HMMMMMMMM

So you run your lifters in water? Interesting...

You know the oil/block temp can greatly vary from the water temp, right?

210 is not a perfect temp, but it is enough to show significant distortion. Like hot plate valve jobbing; It's not at the actual operating temp, but it's better than 65f. Similar, again, to setting hot lash. It is only a guesstimate, because doing so at operating temp is either impossible or not economical.

I second the previous poster who mentioned a slight offset in head positioning. That, in conjunction with the right head gasket.