Lars and 540 RAT’s Oil Testing

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540 RAT
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Lars and 540 RAT’s Oil Testing

Post by 540 RAT » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:15 pm

The purpose of this brief thread is to hopefully put a few Forum members’ minds at ease about my oil testing efforts. It’s no secret that some folks doubted the value of my testing and the resulting data. They didn’t agree with it and said so. And I can understand that because everyone has been lead to believe that high zinc levels in motor oil was the Holy Grail, and my testing said otherwise.

As I’ve recently posted, there are several independent Industry sources that have validated and backed-up my test results. But, I’m pleased to announce today that the endorsement that means the most to me comes from Dr. Lars Grimsrud. He is the most respected Engineer, Car builder and Tech Guru on the Corvette C3 Forum. Here’s a link:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-performance-3/

He mentioned the following to me, “I run a Propulsion Testing Laboratory for Lockheed Martin Space Systems, so I'm in the testing business. Your methods and approach are in accordance with sound engineering testing methods, and are not arguable by intelligent people”.

He was so impressed with my testing, that he asked me if he could include one of my Oil Testing write-ups in with the Tech Papers he makes available to enthusiasts. I was flattered that he’d ask me, and I happily agreed. He also told me this about my Oil Testing info, “This is excellent stuff, and I've already sent copies of this to my engineering colleagues”.

So, my Oil Testing Information is now available along with the Tech Papers written by him and other highly respected Industry authors.

NOTE: You can contact him about these Tech Papers or about his endorsement of my testing, by going to that Forum link above.

On his list, mine is called “Engine Oils Tested and Rated” (Rev. A), by Rick Jackson (my real name for those who didn’t already know it).

**************

Here’s his total list of available Tech Papers (this first group is by Lars himself):

How to Rebuild your Alternator (Rev. D)
BG Carb Installation (Rev. E)
BG Carb Setup (Rev. D)
How to Replace your C4 Brakes (Rev. C)
How to Install your Distributor (Rev. J)
How to Install your HEI Distributor (Rev. K)
HEI Ignition System Primers (Rev. B)
How to Tune Your Holley (Rev. D)
Holley Street Avenger Stumble Fix (Rev. B)
How to Build a Fuel Line (Rev. M)
How to Rebuild your Front End (C2 & C3) (Rev. B)
How to Set Up Corvette IRS Rear Camber (basic do-at-home version) (Rev. E)
How to Set Your Ignition Timing (Rev. S)
Mitsubishi Eclipse Timing Belt Replacement (Rev. D)
Handy Paint Mixing Formulas for Restorers (Rev. D)
Corvette Body & Paint Basics (applicable to steel cars, too) (Rev. E)
Q-Jet Problems I Have Seen (Rev. J)
Q-Jet “Hot Slot” Base Gasket Info (Rev E)
How to Tune a Q-Jet (Rev. BZ)
Problems I’ve seen with Commercially Rebuilt Q-Jets (Rev. F)
How to remove & Clean your C4 Radiator (Rev. E)
How to Replace Your Timing Chain (C4 specific, but applicable to any Chevy) (Rev. D)
How to Determine Top Dead Center (Rev. C)
How to Adjust Your TPS and Idle Speed, Early C4 (Rev. E)
Vacuum Advance Control Units Facts and Specs (Rev. X)
Engine Vacuum Explained (Rev. C)
How to Adjust Your Hydraulic Lifters (Rev. C)

Other good tech articles written by good friends and authorities on the subject that he has available:

"30-30" Solid Lifter Cam Valve Adjustment………………...By John Hinckley and Duke Williams
In-Vehicle Corvette Steering Gear Adjustment…………….By Jim Shea
Modern Gasoline and a Classic Corvette…………………....By Henry P. Olsen (Ole’s Carbs)
Engine Oil.……………………………………………………............By Duke Williams
Engine Oils Tested and Rated (Rev. A)……………………....By Rick Jackson

Hopefully, we can now all be on the same page about motor oil testing, and engage in pleasant and respectful motor oil discussions. After all, that kind of thing is what the Forum is supposed to be all about. And if we can do that, people can finally use the truth and the facts to choose their motor oil. In that case, everyone wins.

Thanks for your support Lars, I really appreciate it.

540 RAT

sanfordandson
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Re: Lars and 540 RAT’s Oil Testing

Post by sanfordandson » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:30 pm

If you really wanted a pleasant and respectful discussion you would at a minimum post a photo of your test equipment as you have been asked to do MANY MANY times.

rally
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Re: Lars and 540 RAT’s Oil Testing

Post by rally » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:33 pm

RAT come clean. Its your way to convince people you are legit and not a BSer. I know John Hinckley. I will talk to him about you. Now where is the test engine we all have asked for you to perform oil testings. Also i agree with other poster, lets see pics of all your equipment, yourself, and your dipolma your received in college. You want respect you have to earn it.

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Re: Lars and 540 RAT’s Oil Testing

Post by lorax » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:49 pm

So now you have been validated and have endorsements from a guy that wrote how to articles on how to install your distributor, and how to determine TDC. =D> =D> Excellent!

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Re: Lars and 540 RAT’s Oil Testing

Post by Cubic_Cleveland » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:45 pm

Care to post a YouTube video going through your test procedure? If in fact you're not using a one armed bandit, why not show us? Has Dr. Lars seen your test equipment?

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Re: Lars and 540 RAT’s Oil Testing

Post by Cogburn » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:02 pm

I applaud your efforts. I really do.

The problem is is that your tests do not directly relate to a running engine. Period. They really, really do not relate to a running engine.

I am no tribologist. I do not have a degree in mechanical engineering(I do have a BS in engineering). BUT, I have been building engines for 35 years and I can tell you FOR SURE, if you use some of those oils that score well in your tests in an actual high performance engine they will not do as well as some of those that do not score very well.

PERIOD.

It may not be that they have high levels of zinc, it may not be because they have high levels of whatever. It IS because they do a better job of lubricating an actual RUNNING ENGINE.

If you expect to have the people here respecting your results you need to have data from actual testing with real running engines. Anything else is just interesting anecdotal data at best.

If you really want to test oil you need to do tests on actual engines!

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Re: Lars and 540 RAT’s Oil Testing

Post by Steve Salesky » Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:53 am

Followed that link RAT posted and found two threads (one is a sticky), most of the posts are either asking about RAT's methods, warning that his testing is flawed, and so on just like on this forum. I did not find any endorsement by this Lars guy, but did find a Pennzoil ad, they are listed as a forum sponsor.

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Re: Lars and 540 RAT’s Oil Testing

Post by englertracing » Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:50 am

Cogburn wrote:I applaud your efforts. I really do.

The problem is is that your tests do not directly relate to a running engine. Period. They really, really do not relate to a running engine.

I am no tribologist. I do not have a degree in mechanical engineering(I do have a BS in engineering). BUT, I have been building engines for 35 years and I can tell you FOR SURE, if you use some of those oils that score well in your tests in an actual high performance engine they will not do as well as some of those that do not score very well.

PERIOD.

It may not be that they have high levels of zinc, it may not be because they have high levels of whatever. It IS because they do a better job of lubricating an actual RUNNING ENGINE.

If you expect to have the people here respecting your results you need to have data from actual testing with real running engines. Anything else is just interesting anecdotal data at best.

If you really want to test oil you need to do tests on actual engines!

What can you do dyno it and measure wear and then replace the bearings cam and followers and try the next oil?

How about a bearing mock up?
Use rod bearings and two caps that habe been line honed and hook it up to a press and turn it with a small block Chevy or an 50hp electric motor and chart hydraulic pressure vs rpm drop or pressure vs amp draw.
Maybe bend the shaft a couple thou out to represent some of the shock load a rod brg will see

Now turn a cam with the motor and hold the lifters down with a top fuel Spring and measure the cycles till it guals?

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Re: Lars and 540 RAT’s Oil Testing

Post by Dodge Freak » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:24 am

People are still reading Rat's threads about oil testing, lol :lol:

I stop long ago, it made little sense

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Re: Lars and 540 RAT’s Oil Testing

Post by wil8115 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:39 am

snake oil by any name...

lorax
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Re: Lars and 540 RAT’s Oil Testing

Post by lorax » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:53 am

This hack takes a beating everywhere he posts that crap. And he posts it everywhere.
Well, except Bob's the oil guy. I think he is banned from that site :lol:

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Re: Lars and 540 RAT’s Oil Testing

Post by BigBlocksOnTop2 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:19 pm

''ACE" Arm Chair Engineer. I have always found it interesting how a piece of college paper can make some people act, especially mechanical engineers. Thirty- three years in power stations, I have saw them all. From the bull shitters to the over inflated egos to the real deals. A good friend of mine is a mechanical engineer and was a professor at Va. Tech. He is a main ''go to'' in the company and he is not afraid to put on coveralls and get greasy dirty doing a job. hats off to these guys. This other guy here on ST has backed himself into a corner. The crap has been going on for a while, yet no proof......bullshitter.

rally
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Re: Lars and 540 RAT’s Oil Testing

Post by rally » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:56 pm

RAT lets come clean. Either your legit by proving it, or your not. Prove it, Pictures, equipment, your full name and college degree pasted on line. If you have nothing, i mean nothing to hide, ante up and give what we all want, legit honest answers.

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Re: Lars and 540 RAT’s Oil Testing

Post by Lockwire » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:59 pm

BigBlocksOnTop2 wrote:''ACE" Arm Chair Engineer. I have always found it interesting how a piece of college paper can make some people act, especially mechanical engineers. Thirty- three years in power stations, I have saw them all. From the bull shitters to the over inflated egos to the real deals. A good friend of mine is a mechanical engineer and was a professor at Va. Tech. He is a main ''go to'' in the company and he is not afraid to put on coveralls and get greasy dirty doing a job. hats off to these guys. This other guy here on ST has backed himself into a corner. The crap has been going on for a while, yet no proof......bullshitter.
X2. I have seen them in Motorsport all over the world over a lot of years. :lol: Ask AJ Foyt and a couple others what they think of engineers. I have one guy I helped a little with a quite quick SCCA car and all I heard was this and that engineer, could'nt win the runnoff listening to them. 90 % bullshitters and do not know in Motorsport what make the cars quick. MHO.

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Re: Lars and 540 RAT’s Oil Testing

Post by englertracing » Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:04 pm

Dodge Freak wrote:People are still reading Rat's threads about oil testing, lol :lol:

I stop long ago, it made little sense

But your here now!

Locked