Please school me on dry sump systems

[Belgian1979]

I may have missed it, but have you ran the engine without the cooler and accusump? Just with a filter in the standard location?

Could be way to complex to do something that simple.

Why does this engine need an oil cooler? If the oil temps are that hot, than fix it.

What kind of BS is this ? There are more than one indications that the cooler nor the accusump, nor the remote filter is the cause, such as the accusump fully disconnected having no influence on the pressure drop, such as the same pressure drop taking place with cold oil and the oil cooler not in play (lines to the cooler are cold where the lines from and to the thermostat are hot), such as the filter having no effect.

But as soon as I've got the time, I will fab up a line and connect directly to the filter and prove you wrong.

But in all your wisdom I would still like to know how the pump or any wet sump can be modified so that it needs no bypass.

And for the reason for an oil cooler, you should know that running high rpms gives high oil temps.

[lorax]

Nobody said you don't need a pressure relief, nobody said you don't need a cooler.
But if the cooler and lines create ANY restriction to flow, then that will lower the pressure you see in the block, and will cause the relief to open at a pressure LOWER than you are reading at the block. The pump doesn't know what the restriction is, it simply opens at X pressure.

What ever the pressure drop is that that the cooler AND lines create, that's the amount you need to raise the relief spring to get the system back to the original relief pressure without the cooler and lines.
The pump WILL move the oil if you raise the pressure high enough, but MAY not be the right way to fix your problem. Shear force of excessive pressure to shove oil thru the system may not be the right answer.

Ever think that the thermostat is causing the pressure drop? All the oil goes thru the lines and thermostat regardless if its going thru the cooler or not.

[Belgian1979]

Nobody said you don't need a pressure relief, nobody said you don't need a cooler.
But if the cooler and lines create ANY restriction to flow, then that will lower the pressure you see in the block, and will cause the relief to open at a pressure LOWER than you are reading at the block. The pump doesn't know what the restriction is, it simply opens at X pressure.

What ever the pressure drop is that that the cooler AND lines create, that's the amount you need to raise the relief spring to get the system back to the original relief pressure without the cooler and lines.
The pump WILL move the oil if you raise the pressure high enough, but MAY not be the right way to fix your problem. Shear force of excessive pressure to shove oil thru the system may not be the right answer.

Ever think that the thermostat is causing the pressure drop? All the oil goes thru the lines and thermostat regardless if its going thru the cooler or not.

The largest opening in the thermostat is when the oil is hot enough to have the valve close. As I said there is not difference either hot or cold. Same drop. As said I will unhook and see what it does. I just need 2 -10 plugs for that.

[Strange Magic]

High rpms give you high oil temps?

Listen up McGiver. You either loosen the clearances up on that engine so that it is not in bypass mode a good portion of the time or you put some basic standard pump into it to match your restrictive clearances. You already have a low viscosity oil which is just fine. Remove all those McGiver tricks you got going on and everything will be just fine.

[Belgian1979]

High rpms give you high oil temps?

Listen up McGiver. You either loosen the clearances up on that engine so that it is not in bypass mode a good portion of the time or you put some basic standard pump into it to match your restrictive clearances. You already have a low viscosity oil which is just fine. Remove all those McGiver tricks you got going on and everything will be just fine.

They are both positive displacement pumps and although 25 % less pumped volume, it will still mean it's in bypass most of the time. The moment at which it will cavitate will be higher than the HV pump but still far below redline.

[mbrooks]

what are your inlet line to the pump and pressure line size? if you're running oil in the pan with external pump, you are going through the oil so fast i'm surprised there is any in the pan. a 12 qt tank can empty in about 20 seconds.

[Strange Magic]

For those who stepped in recently or who are browsing on through, the topic starter does not own a dry sump system and he doesn't have one on his engine. He has an internal wet sump system that he is having some issues with. Those issues are somewhat related to all the trick of the day accessories that he has tagged onto it as well as the bypass area size in the pump being large enough so that when it goes on bypass (poppet opening) the pressure has a spike down and remains there. Nothing uncommon and nothing unusual when your clearanced in a manor that the pump is bypassing a substaintial amount.

It's not to complicated to understand.

[mbrooks]

thanks, i tried to read it all, a couple times, and kept getting lost.

[Kevin Johnson]

thanks, i tried to read it all, a couple times, and kept getting lost.

There are several other threads on this particular system as well and they are being referred to at various points in the discussion.

[Belgian1979]

For those who stepped in recently or who are browsing on through, the topic starter does not own a dry sump system and he doesn't have one on his engine. He has an internal wet sump system that he is having some issues with. Those issues are somewhat related to all the trick of the day accessories that he has tagged onto it as well as the bypass area size in the pump being large enough so that when it goes on bypass (poppet opening) the pressure has a spike down and remains there. Nothing uncommon and nothing unusual when your clearanced in a manor that the pump is bypassing a substaintial amount.

It's not to complicated to understand.

Wrong.

[Belgian1979]

what are your inlet line to the pump and pressure line size? if you're running oil in the pan with external pump, you are going through the oil so fast i'm surprised there is any in the pan. a 12 qt tank can empty in about 20 seconds.

That's were Strange has got it wrong. 20 seconds to empty 12 gallons. That means 36 gallons in 1 minute. An engine can consume only how much ???? Where does all of the other gpm go to ?

[allencr267]

HV pump is not only bypassing way too much, eating power & chain & drive gear, but is also looping increasingly heated oil if it's bypassing to its intake port.
A dry sump would only compound OP caused problem/s.

[Belgian1979]

HV pump is not only bypassing way too much, eating power & chain & drive gear, but is also looping increasingly heated oil if it's bypassing to its intake port.
A dry sump would only compound OP caused problem/s.

Are you of the opinion a bypass not exiting to the inlet would help/cure ?

why would a dry sump compound the problem ?

[Strange Magic]

Strange Magic wrote:
For those who stepped in recently or who are browsing on through, the topic starter does not own a dry sump system and he doesn't have one on his engine. He has an internal wet sump system that he is having some issues with. Those issues are somewhat related to all the trick of the day accessories that he has tagged onto it as well as the bypass area size in the pump being large enough so that when it goes on bypass (poppet opening) the pressure has a spike down and remains there. Nothing uncommon and nothing unusual when your clearanced in a manor that the pump is bypassing a substaintial amount.

It's not to complicated to understand.

Wrong.

Oh, you have a dry sump Belgian? which dry sump do you have and how many stages is it?

[Belgian1979]

Strange Magic wrote:
For those who stepped in recently or who are browsing on through, the topic starter does not own a dry sump system and he doesn't have one on his engine. He has an internal wet sump system that he is having some issues with. Those issues are somewhat related to all the trick of the day accessories that he has tagged onto it as well as the bypass area size in the pump being large enough so that when it goes on bypass (poppet opening) the pressure has a spike down and remains there. Nothing uncommon and nothing unusual when your clearanced in a manor that the pump is bypassing a substaintial amount.

It's not to complicated to understand.

Wrong.

Oh, you have a dry sump Belgian? which dry sump do you have and how many stages is it?

If you have nothing more to add, stay out and go bother someone else. If you're looking for a piss contest, step outside there is some place for that.