Ultimate Engine Dyno

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Ultimate Engine Dyno

Post by Mike Laws » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:06 am

Have any of you seen or heard about this engine dyno yet?

www.revolutiondyno.com

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Post by Stevespeed » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:08 pm

Seen it on the web probably a year or two ago with a Grumpy engine on it. Hows it working out? Glad you're here.

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Post by Mining4air » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:11 am

I was actually thinking of something like this the other day. I wonder if anyone is trying to make a dyno that will allow you to spin and engine to a desired rpm that pull the rpm's down to another desired level to check engine recovery outputs. Basically simulating a gear shift.

This is probably the closest thing I've seen to what I was thinking. Could this be the next "wetflow bench"?
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Post by Cfin » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:28 am

Uummm....I don't get it. I have a Dynomite setup, the software lets you do a "rolling road" where you can set up "hills" of varying steepness to simulate a race crcuit for example. It also has a 1/4 simulator, dial in weight/launch rpm/gear ratio's etc etc.
Isn't this very similar or am I missing something?

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Post by bobqzzi » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:16 am

By inertia dyno I assume that means it uses some sort of weight, presumably a drum of some sort, as the resistance. Is that correct? If so, that would make it like the dynojet chassis dyno- a device of very limited utility in my opinion.

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Post by wbclassics » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:18 am

A local (Philadelphia area) firm, HG Associates, also has an inertia based engine dyno that they claim to have developed and have been using for quite some time.

http://www.accellodyne.com/testing.htm

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Post by Mike Laws » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:36 am

Stevespeed wrote:Seen it on the web probably a year or two ago with a Grumpy engine on it. Hows it working out? Glad you're here.
The dyno's are working very well and are being further developed, built & sold in Concord, NC. Ron Hutter is still using his successfully and is developing a 1,700+ HP IHRA PS engine on it - along with his SB engines.

I've invited Kevin Finney, mechanical engineer for the dyno-company to register here and offer his input. Kevin & the guys @ Excelleration have made tremendous improvements to the dyno.

This is a good site - there are some sharp minds lurking here.

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Revolution Inertia Dynamometer

Post by Kevin Finney » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:35 am

We appreciate the discussion regarding the inertia dynamometer. It is very interesting to listen to the acquiring minds regarding this information about the inertia concept.

We have been developing the Revolution Inertia Dynamometer for the past year here in North Carolina. Currently, we have seen repeatability results of the measured elapsed time within 0.000 to 0.005 seconds between consecutive sweeps. This has calculated to 0.10% repeatability on average. It is all dependent on the length of the sweep (directly dependent on the rpm span that the engine accelerates through).

The video on our website shows the primitive stage of our circle track simulation.

Kevin Finney
Excelleration, LLC
www.revolutiondyno.com
Last edited by Kevin Finney on Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Dave Koehler » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:15 pm

Mike Laws,
Was it you or another guy from Florida that originated this design? Then it got sold to Stuska? Nothing came of it so now it's in the current owners hands? Not a problem. Just curious.
Does it still use Performance Trends software?

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Post by Keith Morganstein » Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:35 am

I don't think there is anything wrong with the concept of inertia dyno's. Anyone that tunes and calculates at the dragstrip by MPH and ET is doing the same thing. The question is if it's the best tool for engine development and tuning.

This is a different approach in trying to simulate lap after lap conditions. I'm not so sure it can simulate all track condition such as wind resitance and track friction. i.e. above 55mph, aerodynamic horsepower demand increases by the cube of speed increase.

It may have merit for the high cycle application in the video.

I would think that a waterbrake or eddy current dyno could simulate this with proper control too.

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Post by Mike Laws » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:01 am

Dave Koehler wrote:Mike Laws,
Was it you or another guy from Florida that originated this design? Then it got sold to Stuska? Nothing came of it so now it's in the current owners hands? Not a problem. Just curious.
Does it still use Performance Trends software?

Dave Koehler
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Dave:

Sorry for the delay in my response to you and no problem w/your questions. Yes, it is my original design and your timeline description is accurate. The current owners & crew are progressive thinkers & "do-er's" and have developed the dyno into an impressive machine. The Performance Trends software is no longer being utilized. The PT software is a fine system, however the guys @ Excelleration are using software produced by Land & Sea that provides them with the ability to write and utilize their own formulas and functions that are beyond the capabilities of the current PT system.

The inertia dyno also has the ability to induce aero-load, etc. to an engine using known Cd/velocity information entered into the software which then tells the water-brake absorber to supplement the inertia load. They've actually simulated 50 lap "races" (accel & decel) without stopping and have the ability to run a 600 mile race.

The strongest advantage of the machine is its ability to accurately replicate on-track acceleration and it repeats with extreme accuracy. Excelleration recently concluded a fairly extensive test - comparing 4 different intake manifolds on a NASCAR BGN engine. Click on the link below to see the full report. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the results of this test.

http://www.revolutiondyno.com/pdf/Chevr ... Engine.pdf

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Post by cboggs » Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:29 pm

So basic acceleration rates could be tested, .. like the different
acceleration rates of port sizes or shapes on one style engine, ..

Finding that "special" head / port that runs well on the track but
doesn't always show up under water brake style dyno tests, ..

Can you contact me with a base unit costs.
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Post by rskrause » Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:06 am

Anyone know what they are doing in F1? In general, they seem to have the biggest budgets and the most technology for testing. When I watch and listen to this http://www.designmuseum.org/f1/f1_movie_page.html much linked to video, it sounds like they are simulating a lap under load. In fact, one of the monitors seems to show the progress of a virtual car along a track map.

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Post by PackardV8 » Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:24 pm

FWIW, engine dynos which simulate and repeat various track loads have been around for 40 years that I know of. Ford used full-scale dyno load runs for their mid-60s Indy development, where engines simulated the full 500 miles of acceleration, decel and pit stops. In the late 60s-early 70s Le Mans efforts each shift was simulated for the full 24 hours.

F1 actually data logs and loads each driver's track test sessions. Once a new engine parameter has been established on the dyno, it can be transfered and repeat the run virtually to see if it adds speed/subtracts time at various points on any of the tracks. Only if it shows promise is the actual full race length dyno run.

thnx, jv.
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Post by Mike Laws » Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:05 pm

cboggs wrote:So basic acceleration rates could be tested, .. like the different
acceleration rates of port sizes or shapes on one style engine, ..

Finding that "special" head / port that runs well on the track but
doesn't always show up under water brake style dyno tests, ..

Can you contact me with a base unit costs.
info@raceflowdevelopment.com

Curtis
Yes, the "natural" acceleration rate of the engine is the key here, which is affected by volumetric-efficiency, cam events, oiling efficiency, mechanical-efficiency, etc. While developing the inertia dyno - it was quickly apparent that there was often a significant difference in data collected from a water-brake dyno and the inertia dyno. We've all experienced the situation where engine "A" runs decent in the car - we build engine "b" which produces better torque/hp numbers on the WB dyno, yet runs slower on the race track. Astute dyno-operators often have a "feel" when testing a good engine before they even see the data, although there are times that the WB-data showed lower numbers than expected. The inertia dyno also produces the same "feel", yet the numbers always back-up the "feel" and also back up on-track results.
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