Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk

I would love some help on this. The old work truck from "Max torque 355 on 87 octane" Is ready for a new fuel injection system and I could use some help from you experts who have been using these systems. I have been running the wheels off this thing this summer and the pump has been acting up and I would love a more modern self adjusting system. Quick specs, 355 cid, 081 ported heads, mild roller cam with 1.6 roller rockers, low restriction exhaust, ported Holley intake and a Holley projection 4di with a computer controlled Accel HEI distributor. I have been running tbi systems since they came to market and are used to them. I would change out the intake for a dry intake system if it would really be worth it. Thanks in advance for your input!

Want to play with a new toy? Any one of them will work for a while. I've heard more complaints about the MSD than the other two.

Trying to cost-justify one? Run the numbers and I'll never live/drive long enough for a slight increase in MPG for the $2200 - $2995 retail cost to ever pay out.

jack vines

I have two cars with the Fast EZ EFI system, one car with a tunnel ram and Dual Quad (406 sbc) set up and the other single set up (383 sbc). Both work great. These systems are reliant on the vacuum signal and so if you run a fairly low vacuum engine it might get a little fussy. The tunnel ram engine only has maybe 6-7 in vacuum when hot so its on the edge but has presented no real issues. If your current efi set up is set up right or if your running a carb that's set up right you may not see any improvement in mpg so I wouldn't base any decisions on return on investment based on fuel savings. Drivability, start-ability and overall performance is improved, at least in my case. I would never go back to a carb. I think all self learning efi systems will give you essentially the same performance and features, give or take.
Here's some videos and a link to my thread on Team Chevelle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUleaPfiFes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0__HI8mkGa0
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306642

It runs high vacuum the cam is very short at 260 hr magnum from Comp. Only 206 degrees @ .050.
It gets 10 mpg which is about what it ran with the stock 185hp TBI engine.

Any of the systems should work pretty good then. I'm partial to FAST but there wasn't much to choose from when I bought. Pick your poison!

PackardV8 wrote:Want to play with a new toy? Any one of them will work for a while. I've heard more complaints about the MSD than the other two.

Trying to cost-justify one? Run the numbers and I'll never live/drive long enough for a slight increase in MPG for the $2200 - $2995 retail cost to ever pay out.

jack vines

Jack, the Holley that is on it now was installed back in 95 and has been on for the last four or five engines. At least two engines died an early death from my steep learning curve on a fully programmable system.

IMO, FAST, Holley, Megasquirt and then MSD.

BigStuff3 if you want the goods. John Meaney!

GM TPI code has been so reverse engineered that with a custom prom and wb 02 it will self adjust like the big boys.

As of yesterday Holley now has the Terminators in stock.
If you need one let me know.
I ordered one to play with on the dyno to see how it works.

Randy

MS3, then pick whatever else you want as it works with basically everything.

Hell, I run the "el cheapo" MS1 and it does just fine, not a super high hp application though.

I have an older Holley "Commander 950 Pro" on a Tuned Port Injected Chevy small block and it has worked great for whatever I want to do with it.

I've installed six of these systems over the last dozen years or so(Ramjet, FAST TBI, FAST port injection, Holley TBI and an older Accel system that was NOS). Here my $.02: without controlling the spark directly from the crankshaft, port injection does not offer any benefit over a throttle body system. Controlling the spark from the distributor is just not accurate enough to extract the benefits from port injection. I would stay away from port injection unless you have an ignition system that is crank-fired and controlled by an ECU that is cylinder specific. The benefits just do not outweigh the cost and complexity.

Any type of self-learning system should be good as long as you have the wide-band O2 sensor included--just make sure you engine makes the required vacuum. If not, you may have to switch to a tune it yourself system and some expensive dyno time.

If you want to make a bunch of power, have good reliability and are the set it and forget it type: I'd use the FAST TBI or the Holley TBI. The systems I used and installed were as good as any carb, got equivalent mileage on the road of a Quadrajet, but had great throttle response, not to mention the cold-start benefits. Just make sure you get the wide-band O2 sensor/upgrade. I currently have an older FAST system on my DD and it has more than 72K miles, runs on pump gas and puts out close to 480HP and gets nearly 24mpg(400sbc, flat-top pistons, AFR 195/old style, zz430 cam replica with Rhoads lifters/intake only and 1.6 rocker/intake only--[my brother has this exact same combo and makes more power with a 107 LSA cam with longer intake duration, but equivalent lift and does not have to use the Rhoads lifters or the 1.6 ratio) the correct camshaft makes all the difference and saves you from the Band-Aid approach I took].

For a mild 350-383 the Ramjet I installed was also GREAT. It now has the Arizona Speed and Marine upgrades, and is fantastic: truly a great everyday driver system, but is HP limited. I think this system is a no-brainer if you want 400hp or less. It is factory tested, has OEM reliability, and GM has worked out all the bugs as long as you use a fuel system with a return. A few times a year I get to drive the Corvette I originally installed the system in nearly a decade ago. Every time I remark to myself how well it runs and how good the throttle response is.(350, fast-burn heads, 385 fast-burn cam with 1.6 intake rockers)

For any system make sure you have a good fuel pump, regulator, and a return fuel line. The variable pressure systems are actually not as good as a carb in my experience. (I put one in and soon upgraded because of its poor performance. Later, a friend bought one against my advice, he had to upgrade too.)

I hope this helps

I found the old Holley Pro-jection to need a little care & feeding on zero-maintenance street cars. Had one crap out 150 miles from home (in Las Vegas) on one guy's car during a club run. The thing switched to full-rich and was blowing smoke like a diesel tractor in a pulling contest. After considerable fiddling on the side of a desert road, the problem was found to be a corroded ground from the microprocessor to the car's battery terminal. A woman's fingernail file fixed it right up. But boy was the owner sweating! I suspect all these systems need professional-quality wiring, E-Z or not....

fastvette wrote:As of yesterday Holley now has the Terminators in stock.
If you need one let me know.
I ordered one to play with on the dyno to see how it works.

Randy

I am leaning toward the Holley, so how does it run on the dyno?

The Holley's the way to go, IMO. If you want to upgrade to MPI down the road, add boost, run coil on plug, nitrous, meth injection, etc. It's fully capable, or you can just leave it simple. The software is very user friendly and intuitive; you can download it for free from their website to check it out.

Carnut1 wrote:

fastvette wrote:As of yesterday Holley now has the Terminators in stock.
If you need one let me know.
I ordered one to play with on the dyno to see how it works.

Randy

I am leaning toward the Holley, so how does it run on the dyno?

It will be a little while till I run it on the dyno, mabe several weeks.
When I do I will let you know how it works.
I have done several of the MPI from Holley and they work well.

Randy