Single Plane vs Dual Plane Intake ?

[cjperformance]

how many variables determining an intake vs bore,stroke,cam,head etc,vs the internet?
write a novel make money!
vizard springs to mind!lol

Plenty of variables to play with for a given purpose. All the tweeking, testing etc are what make the differences between a good combo and a spot on combo wether its for max street economy or full effort racing.
If youre not willing to test/try why not go back to the days of 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full race cams, and just live with how it is!

[cjperformance]

It was an "everything else being equal" test. As mentioned before, it quite less than a perfcet engine 9 short block ), with typical hot-street buildf specs. I think we've been around long enough to know what to expect... IE, good dual plane, better in mid reange... good single plane, better up high.
We DId try a couple different specers on te single plane. This was because I still have control how it is cast, and they could help determine what would be the ideal carb height. A 1 inch open, did nothing but hiurt a little lower torque. A 2 inch :phenolic" raduus 4 hole, made about 6 more HP at the top end, but again, compromised torque below 4000.
Testing is fun... but it IS a 300 mile round trip, and $800.00+ a day.

Totally agree, testing is fun but not cheap at all. Do you have any flow figs or csa numbers to share on the new intakes? BTW nice looking wagon too.

[eikoor]

how many variables determining an intake vs bore,stroke,cam,head etc,vs the internet?
write a novel make money!
vizard springs to mind!lol

Plenty of variables to play with for a given purpose. All the tweeking, testing etc are what make the differences between a good combo and a spot on combo wether its for max street economy or full effort racing.
If youre not willing to test/try why not go back to the days of 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full race cams, and just live with how it is!

"Why not"? my guess would be because of all the data that has been proven by those test/try retest and try again and then write about it!
Vizard springs to mind!

[rally]

I see the dual plane at a particular RPM has superior cylinder fill. Dyno testing is very good. But doing a physical test with the car on the strip comparing intakes tells a bunch IMO.

[cjperformance]

I see the dual plane at a particular RPM has superior cylinder fill. Dyno testing is very good. But doing a physical test with the car on the strip comparing intakes tells a bunch IMO.

X2

[Bob Hollinshead]

I see the dual plane at a particular RPM has superior cylinder fill. Dyno testing is very good. But doing a physical test with the car on the strip comparing intakes tells a bunch IMO.

If you optimized the gearing, transmission, converter for each engine wouldn't the one that made the most power et the best?

[eikoor]

I see the dual plane at a particular RPM has superior cylinder fill. Dyno testing is very good. But doing a physical test with the car on the strip comparing intakes tells a bunch IMO.

If you optimized the gearing, transmission, converter for each engine wouldn't the one that made the most power et the best?

It's all about combination, I know guys with SBC nitrous drag radial cars that outrun big tire big ci BBC nitrous cars.

[C_Stock_409Chevy]

I see the dual plane at a particular RPM has superior cylinder fill.

Superior ?
Is that right ?
And at what RPM would that be ? ? ?

There is a fundamental reason that any properly designed single plane, would be superior on these messed up W block heads
In a few words... angle of approach into the head ports. ANY dual plane, will inescapably have 4 runners that dive straight down at almost a right angle to the head port. Nothing you can do about it.
That gets looked after with a single plane.

This isn't some belly-button, generic "383" small block. It has inherent design issues that need to be overcome as best we can.
It became quite obviious that the single plane intake was helping.

Is it so difficult to believe that God Edelbrock may have got the schitt beat out of him ?

[eikoor]

Is it so difficult to believe that God Edelbrock may have got the schitt beat out of him ?

I'm guessing they know how to invest their money where there is a market, I think your going to have to build intakes for just about every engine as they do before you can start beating your chest with pride!

How many years have you been building intakes for the automotive performance "world"?

[C_Stock_409Chevy]

Beating my chest ?
hardly
I simply took one engine, that I know, and created something that nothing even resembling it, had ever been done before.
FACT is, the damn thing works... and given more tuning, would hasve worked even better.
Between the nay-sayers, the doubters, and those who keep saying, dyno tests mean nothing... take it to the track. That'll prove what's what.
I agree, peak torque and peak HP numbers are pretty insignificant.
However, AVERAGE torque an AVERAGE HP numbers, are the real deal.

[eikoor]

Beating my chest ?
hardly
I simply took one engine, that I know, and created something that nothing even resembling it, had ever been done before.
FACT is, the damn thing works... and given more tuning, would hasve worked even better.
Between the nay-sayers, the doubters, and those who keep saying, dyno tests mean nothing... take it to the track. That'll prove what's what.
I agree, peak torque and peak HP numbers are pretty insignificant.
However, AVERAGE torque an AVERAGE HP numbers, are the real deal.

I’m not saying it don’t work, your claim was "you beat Edelbrock", I think you will have to produce a lot of intakes and heads before making that claim!
What you will find in the performance world is a syndrome called” Wasn’t invented here syndrome” it was coined by a man that has done more R&D than most people we will ever know and presented that R&D to more major manufactures than you can think of, not to best them with his products or have his name on them but to show them how they could better the very products they already have and was shot down on almost every account.
I will tell you what I was told, if your product is any good then present it to everyone that could benefit from it and sell as many as you can.
Because if the major manufacturers catch wind of it they will simply buy one from you cast it put their name on it and you will be out of business.

[dfree383]

Beating my chest ?
hardly
I simply took one engine, that I know, and created something that nothing even resembling it, had ever been done before.
FACT is, the damn thing works... and given more tuning, would hasve worked even better.
Between the nay-sayers, the doubters, and those who keep saying, dyno tests mean nothing... take it to the track. That'll prove what's what.
I agree, peak torque and peak HP numbers are pretty insignificant.
However, AVERAGE torque an AVERAGE HP numbers, are the real deal.

You're not doing anything that hasn't been proven already. The fact that your doing it to a dead end engine family..... that's been written off years ago by racers and development is nil because they are not main stream, well that's the only thing new.

[twl]

I think it's great that somebody takes the bull by the horns and creates their own product by their own work, and it works as they hoped it would.
That is reward enough in itself.The world needs more of that kind of thinking.

As far as "beating Edelbrock", it doesn't really matter, does it?
This is a niche product aimed at a vintage enthusiast market.

I'll give 2 thumbs up for hard work that paid off.

[rally]

Thanks cjperformance, fact is you get better cylinder fill with a good dual plane, i am not taking about a low rise factory cast iron job, a good factory hi -perf Chevy aluminum high rise intakes cast back in the day. Z-28, L-78- L72, L-88, ZL-1, 409 dual quads, L-79, Factory intakes are pretty dog gone good.

[vortecpro]

My first post, guys... so please be gentle !

Gee, I bet nobody ever asked THIS question before ?

I've seen some recent coverage on dyno tests with a few different engines, testing dual plane intakes against single plane. Usually, this seems to be the Edelbrock Performer, vs the Victor JR..
Invariably, it seems that in anything but an all out, over the top, non-streetable race engine... the dual plane gives as good, or better performance.

One thing is for sure... I got very VERY different results.

I run a dual plane on my oval port 454, TQ peak is around 5000 RPM, peak HP is around 7100 RPM, but always trying to raise these peaks inexpensively with my flattappet cam, I like the TQ which is over 630, I will try a worked over Victor jr on there in a effort to raise the peaks more. I guess the aftermarket doesn't have much to offer for your W motor, nice results. Would it be possible to put up a dyno test from a stocker 409? That thing holds on good, to bad you cant run that on your stocker.