Having trouble getting rings to seat, I guess

[CNC BLOCKS]

.003 is a disaster with the deck plate on. Personally I would consider .0015 out of shape a disaster when measured with a deck plate in place. The deck plate will simulate how that cylinders shape will actually be when the heads are on. There is significant cylinder shape changes with and without a plate on. All blocks that leave my shop, when finished are plus .0002 and minus .0000.

The engine rings on thier pistons are assembled dry. The cylinders are cleaned with trans fluid and then wiped thoroughly dry. Non synthetic oil only through the entire dyno session as well as the first day at the track on many occasions. Sometimes I will go over to synthetic on the last hit, only if I feel the engine is very stable and I have enough hits on it on the dyno.

Hopefully your using a good hone and stones which are very key to having good ring seal !!!!

[CNC BLOCKS]

Now how come engines that have not been plate honed and have run for many laps never seal up and even after 2 or 3 years of running and have poor leak down numbers. . . I have seen engines on the dyno never seal up after many pulls.

X2 on that Carl. I recently pulled down an old marine flathead six with chrome rings which had run for years without the rings completely seated.

.003 is a disaster with the deck plate on. Personally I would consider .0015 out of shape a disaster when measured with a deck plate in place. The deck plate will simulate how that cylinders shape will actually be when the heads are on. There is significant cylinder shape changes with and without a plate on. All blocks that leave my shop, when finished are plus .0002 and minus .0000.

A deck plate is the best tool we have on a day-to-day basis. I've never done hot honing but I've always wanted to try it and measure the differences hot and cold. It's obvious there are differences with heat in the block. The thinner the cylinder walls the more distortion with traditional power stroke honing. Going down the bore line quickly, finishing with a perfect reading, it'll be off when the block cools. If the customer will pay for perfect, it's a must to get close and then let the block completely cool. Then do the last few tenths finish on holes one and three on a side, flip and do two and four on the other side, back to the other side and so on. This PITA method requires two deck plates, so it's going to cost more.

It hard to stress to cutomers the importance of using a good hone and using good abaisives which you not going to get with cheap hones and cheap stones.

If I was seeing issues not honing I would surely look into it. What it would cost to hone hone a block I think the customer would feel it in there wallet more then in the seat of there pants.

[Strange Magic]

Hopefully your using a good hone and stones which are very key to having good ring seal !!!!

Un-regulated crankcase vacuum is north of 21 inches when they leave.

Besides a leak down and blow by meter, the best indication of great ring seal, is just a mear glance at the color and texture of the exhaust port after run. The exhaust port can tell you all about an engine.

The first grey bar on the bottom is what it needs to look like, in the port and in the header. If your any of the top three bars, you've got oil in your chamber. (moderate to severe).

[MadBill]

This color chart is excellent for leaded fuel, but unleaded is tougher to decode... (of course a rich mixture also confuses the issue)

[wyrmrider]

Also the mains must be torqued down
same head bolts or studs and gaskets
Olds are especially finiky
laping chrome rings has been mentioned recently
If you lap you do not have to use as coarse a stone

[Alaskaracer]

With all this talk about honing, I remember reading, on here I think, about allowing the block to cool between cylinders.....Wouldn't hot honing be more beneficial since it would help simulate the engine temp under running conditions?

[MadBill]

Do a Search on 'hot honing' for a hundred plus hits...

[Strange Magic]

There has been numerous discussions on the extent/extreme of how far one can take it when it comes to honing an engine block and although on paper it might make sense, whereas you can justify it, the reality of it and the end result doesn't make for that engine to increase it's torque output and mechnical well being.

To me, having a hot plate on while rushing tons of room temp or even cooler honing oil at the walls, making inconsistancies from one side to another, is actually less productive than good. Thats just my opinion on some of the many over the top tricks, not to mention many of the "over the top tricks" will cause you as a customer to get thrown right out of the shop, and thats strickly due to the time you will consume of that owner, who you are not going to pay to do this and your not going to pay for all that talk time you have in store and are willing to read it off of your self published book on "how to". On many occasions I contemplated having oil heaters in all of my machines that had honing oil in them, but when you start to heat up that honing oil, you lose those charicteristics that need to be there, as well as the loss of viscosity.

My take: Don't out trick yourself, because it's just a bunch of bullshyt and you highly run the risk of getting tossed.

[wishicouldbe]

What exactly does the Bon ami do

[Strange Magic]

You can click on the link and get first hand information from Bon Ami themselfs. There is a page dedicated to it. The link is below.

http://www.bonami.com/index.php/ask_bon_ami/

[Abbottracingheads]

Bon Ami will kill a good motor. Do not do it. Get it honed right.

[wishicouldbe]

Does it make the cylinder walls smoother or rougher?

[CNC BLOCKS]

Does it make the cylinder walls smoother or rougher?

Its more of an abraisive and will wear the cylinder wall round and I am sure it will hurt the ring lands as well. Its kind of a band aid LOL

Best thing it to have it hone with a torque plate and a power hone that will do a consistant cross hatch and consistant feed and most power hones you will see in high end shops and they are there for a reason.

When asked about having machine work done I tell those guys when looking for good work look at the equipment being used by the shop if its not up to your standard find another shop that has the proper equipment to do the job correctly. There a lot of good shops out there !!!!

[Dan Timberlake]

I've always heard the chromoly rings take along time and people have this trouble often.. But I don't know about the plasma moly

Usually rings are ductile iron, either chrome OR moly faced. Even some catalogs used to call them chrome molly, probably just adding the word moly to chrome since for every race application the various "chrome molly" steels have evolved to buzz words for "good."

[Dan Timberlake]

.............. I recently pulled down an old marine flathead six with chrome rings which had run for years without the rings completely seated.

Hi Jack,

What were the indications the rings had not "completely seated?"

Dan T