towing heads and cam question

[Warpspeed]

We are talking truck and marine engines here.
Big wide torque, and good economy at fairly open throttle settings.

Nothing at all like what most people here run.
It's a totally different world.

[Kenneth Flippen]

Mike how much power will be made with the cams already suggested

In real HP numbers, not the B.S. numbers in those articals you listed.
The Hydr flat tappet would make about 400 ft/lbs, and 350hp.
The Hydr roller would make about 425 ft/lbs, and 365hp

Sounds like plenty of power to do the job let me decide something on heads and well go from there. I saw on some pro comps from white performance they gave a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty it'd be nice to have 1500 to throw at a set if AFR's. I want to stay 200cc or under I found a set of aluminum vortec style 198cc but unassembled I plan to stay with flat tappet

What would it change if you done a cam similar to this in a single pattern? Just curious to what it would change on performance characteristics

Just to be clear the cams listed above are cam and lifter only correct


Kenneth

[novadude]

What I was hoping to accomplish, and we're just scratching down notes at this point, was to give him something that would give him enough overlap to make some real torque at his anticipated cruise speed

So how DOES overlap affect part throttle cruise? Seems like when we see statements like "tight LSA increases midrange torque", we are talking about WOT dyno pulls.

How does varying overlap affect throttle response, etc when there is lots of manifold vacuum, and throttle plates are just cracked open cruising down the road? As you increase overlap, I would guess that you are going to pull more exhaust into the intake when you are crusing at 2000 rpm w/ 18-20" of manifold vacuum, but I really don't know what that does for fuel economy and throttle response (my guess would be that increased overlap has a negative impact in these situations).

[CamKing]

Sounds like plenty of power to do the job let me decide something on heads and well go from there. I saw on some pro comps from white performance they gave a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty it'd be nice to have 1500 to throw at a set if AFR's. I want to stay 200cc or under I found a set of aluminum vortec style 198cc but unassembled I plan to stay with flat tappet

What would it change if you done a cam similar to this in a single pattern? Just curious to what it would change on performance characteristics

Just to be clear the cams listed above are cam and lifter only correct

How about $1,260 ? http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/60979/10002/-1

If you go to a single pattern, it'll hurt the top-end power a little, help the low-end power a little, but increase the temp(and may not allow as much compression).
The pricing I gave earlier was for cam and lifters only. If you had a hydraulic roller block to start with, the hydraulic roller lifters would be over $200 cheaper.

[CamKing]

From Bullet's profiles:
Intake: 259 @ .006, 208 @ .050, 130 @ .200, CTA (conventional nose, asymetrical) lobe profile, .521 lift with 1.6 rockers
Exhaust: 268 -4 (264) @ .006, 210 @ .050, 120 @ .200, CTS (conventional nose, symetrical) lobe profile, .486 lift with 1.6 rockers
108 LSA

I'm guessing Mike widened the LSA for mileage?

Any takers on how this cam will perform? My computer's dead so I lost my sim programs.


Shawn

The tighter LSA wouldn't work with 9.5:1 and 87 octane.

By widening the LSA, you can increase the compression ratio, and it'll make more power and get better milage.

[swatson454]

I was figuring a pretty heavy load with manifold vacuum being much lower than cruising empty. I was hoping Mike would comment on his 111 versus my 108 with regards to torque and mileage but I didn't hint well enough

My last post was more the wine talking than anything

Edit: Thanks, Mike

[Alan Roehrich]

Mike how much power will be made with the cams already suggested

In real HP numbers, not the B.S. numbers in those articals you listed.
The Hydr flat tappet would make about 400 ft/lbs, and 350hp.
The Hydr roller would make about 425 ft/lbs, and 365hp

Sounds like plenty of power to do the job let me decide something on heads and well go from there. I saw on some pro comps from white performance they gave a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty it'd be nice to have 1500 to throw at a set if AFR's. I want to stay 200cc or under I found a set of aluminum vortec style 198cc but unassembled I plan to stay with flat tappet

What would it change if you done a cam similar to this in a single pattern? Just curious to what it would change on performance characteristics

Just to be clear the cams listed above are cam and lifter only correct


Kenneth

FYI, what is in red is a really bad idea. Do not do that.

[Kenneth Flippen]

Sounds like plenty of power to do the job let me decide something on heads and well go from there. I saw on some pro comps from white performance they gave a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty it'd be nice to have 1500 to throw at a set if AFR's. I want to stay 200cc or under I found a set of aluminum vortec style 198cc but unassembled I plan to stay with flat tappet

What would it change if you done a cam similar to this in a single pattern? Just curious to what it would change on performance characteristics

Just to be clear the cams listed above are cam and lifter only correct

How about $1,260 ? http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/60979/10002/-1

If you go to a single pattern, it'll hurt the top-end power a little, help the low-end power a little, but increase the temp(and may not allow as much compression).
The pricing I gave earlier was for cam and lifters only. If you had a hydraulic roller block to start with, the hydraulic roller lifters would be over $200 cheaper.

Well let me save a few more weeks and look around see what I can come up with on heads

[wyrmrider]

good move
will be much more cost effective in the long run and from what I read note even a very long long run

[Kenneth Flippen]

What size heads would be needed for towing set up at what point would I starve the engine and what point would loose velocity


Kenneth

[Warpspeed]

"Pipemax" is very good at optimizing valve size, port flow areas, runner length, and valve timing for any particular rpm range.
You can very quickly discover what is too big, and what is too small for your intended application.
The trick is to get a good combination of parts that work together, and the cam is only one part of it, not the whole entire story.

[rfoll]

I think any quality head will do the job at the RPM stated. I recently assembled a 400 with the stock 20 cc or whatever pistons using cleaned up Vortec heads. It came out near 9:1 cr. I used a cam similar to a comp XE268, much bigger than what is being discussed here. The cam produced a rumpety idle that disappeared at 1100 rpm and worked well with a stock converter. Huge torque all the way to 5000 rpm. I ran 13.20 in a 4000 lb car using 3.42 gears. Clearly the heads, even at 170 cc, were big enough, and the price was right. If you are thinking of kicking the CR up past 9.5, Aluminum might be a better deal. If you live in a cold environment, you need to consider carb heat for vortec style heads, no heat crossover. Vortec Performer RPM manifolds have a passage to plumb your heater hose to to solve this problem. I think it helps MPG as well.

[Kenneth Flippen]

Thanks fellas I've wondered about the vortec heads

I didn't have any luck with finding pipe max is there a calculator on here that will work
http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm

Kenneth

[Warpspeed]

I didn't have any luck with finding pipe max

Try here Kenneth:
http://hotrodenginetech.com/pipemax_hea ... _software/

[cfm]

Take it for what it's worth ..remember, a wrecker pulling a car is not a crew cab pulling horses... a customer (not for this project) had the following parts lying around and put on a 406 for his old wrecker and said it hauls azz towing:
Performer Intake
EQ180 heads
The old trusty comp cams 268H (218/218 110LSA)
Headers and dual exhaust.

I actually don't think it's a bad combo at all.