IMCA HOBBY MOTOR VERSE CRATE!!!! I HATE CRATES PERIOD!!!

[dirtracr5]

Top 3 to go fast in dirt track racing....
3rd......motor
2nd.....driver
1st....car that will go around the corner..

I would lose sales on motors when racer would come in and say "I want a motor just like xxx"
I would ask can you hold it to the floor all the way around? they would say no...I would tell them to
go work on the car...

got all kinds of storys on this..

FINALLY some common sense...

[ZIGGY]

As they say, common sense ain't common...

And as we've all said here before, a poor driver or setup will make a good engine builder look bad.

[bderry]

ok so hear is my motor setup:
Std bore 350
two valve releif pistons
5.7 connecting rods
stock stroke crankshaft 3.48
a set of 487 heads with .600 lift valve springs done by midwest cylinder head(tim hadley)
a camshat from the camking(mike jones)
stock length pushrods rom jr motorsports
stamped steel roller tip rockers 1.5 long slot
edelbrock 2701 intake
dui ingnition and module with morso wires
350 chevy exhaust manifolds ported out to beat hell with 2 1/2 exhaust
adapter plate
rochester 500 all modified out

here is a link to my rules.
https://imca.com/wp-content/uploads/201 ... stock1.pdf


im going to try and start with a 650 gear. and yes the crates can set the car and stand on the throttle all the way out of the corner and not burn the rear tires off. thats my biggest problem with are two car is we just spin tires coming off the corner.

thanks Brian

[raceman14]

Brian,
You sound like a dedicated and motivated racer, but you have to slow your roll enough to take in everything you are saying...

Do you know the size of the holes in the restrictor plate?
How high do you turn your engine?

You obviously need to take some spring out of the RR as burning the tire to the cords in 25 laps don't prove much other than the set-up is not right. Do you know how much side bite you are getting, any pics of the car on the RR with the chassis working???

When your car rolls to the right do you know what the rear end is doing as far as moving fore or aft in the car? Ideally you would like it to steer open going in and then closed coming off...or more basic than that the rs wheelbase longer going in and shorter coming off.

Do you run a lot of Caster in the car to jack weight and hook up the RR?

Not sure you know this part but once you spin the RR the first time it only takes about 25% as much wheel torque to make it spin again. So unless you control the tire it will burn itself off the wheel.

You might also have to take some gear out of the car to make it accelerate faster on the track. I know it is contrary to what you would think but spinning the tires only slows your lap times.

The fact that the 602 can drive WOT thru corners shows it is down on power and still faster on lap times.

Kinda how Dauderman beat the Supers last year a couple times with one of my 604 Fastrak Crates. It is not always the car with the most power that wins but the car with the most power to the track.

Sounds like you have plenty of power you just need to step back an look at what is happening and make a plan to get the power hooked up. That is why it is so important to get the fuel curve and the timing curve aligned with the acceleration rate of the engine. If you have timing over advanced close to peak TQ and fuel is rich, you end up with way too much at one time and the tires are over powered. Major torque peaks are cool for smoke shows in the parking lot but race tires like a linear torque curve that does not break traction much like the effect of an electric motor in a golf cart.

[barnym17]

You have enough power time to hook it up.1.Try a taller gear. 2.what are your percentages, spring wts.etc?3.Roll center location front and rear?

[levisnteeshirt]

alot of people think crates are Gods gift to racing ,, i say no ,, who wants an engine , if it has a problem , you gotta take it to get resealed by somebody over and over ,,,, we just lost our local track , shut down ,, not enough cars coming ,, 3 other tracks close by isn't helping , they're not doing much better , i think the crate thing is a result of not having some common sense rules to keep the cost down ,,, i dunno ,, the economy around here is doing very well ,, has all the way through the down turn in the economy ,, fuel prices have hurt , but plenty of fans were showing up ,,,, how exciting is it to hear a crate engine run ?? not much ,,,

[MidgetMotorsports07]

The benefits of a crate are the lack of maintenance required and you don't have to go through finding parts. If you are smoking your right rear tire then you are lacking side bite, so why would you want to throw more power at it and make it worse? The reason the crates can put it to the floor is because the produce enough torque to get away with less gear.

The right heads and cam combination will eat a crate motor for lunch if you can get the traction.

[bderry]

WELL im happy to hear ive got a very nice motor. talking with mike for a week or trying to figure out a combantion for a camshaft has been tough but i think mike has hit the nail on the head. i am buildng a new car and we have not scaled it get. ill be running a a light weight flywheel and ram clutch kit with a hydrali slave cylinder on my clutch for the a three speed tranny connecting to a nine inch ford with a 6.50 gear is what im going to try to start with. my other cars that i wrench on have a anywere from a 683 to 700. i want to thank all you guys for your help.im going to tell you im a rookie driver but have been wrenching on car since i was 8 yrs old.this is my first yr as driver so that y im asking for some knowledge and help. id even be willing to txt on my phone for help from u guys.im hoping to have my car scaled and on the track in three weeks. what are good numbers for scaling the car and tire 205/70/r15 tire with tubes in them. whats a good caster camber setup to start with. it is a 3/8 mile bankd track. ill have a 175 in the rr and 200 in the left rear and a 800 in the left front and 1000 in the right front.the rear springs are 13" and fronts are 11". give me ur advice and houghts on the setup and what u think.
thanks brian 10d hobby stock

[RCJ]

R/F Camber -3.5 Caster +4 ,l/f camber +2 caster +2,1/8 toe out
53% left 53%rear,l/r bite could be anywhere from 50lbs to 200lbs just depends on track ,driver etc...
Bilstein stock mount shock are a good starting piont
In the stock classes having good balljionts, tie rods, bushing,steering box is an advantage.
The more centrally located all the wieght in the car is located the more stable the car will be.It won't have the tail out side ways attitude but will be easier to drive in traffic

[kopcicle]

R/F Camber -3.5 Caster +4 ,l/f camber +2 caster +2,1/8 toe out
53% left 53%rear,l/r bite could be anywhere from 50lbs to 200lbs just depends on track ,driver etc...
Bilstein stock mount shock are a good starting piont
In the stock classes having good balljionts, tie rods, bushing,steering box is an advantage.
The more centrally located all the wieght in the car is located the more stable the car will be.It won't have the tail out side ways attitude but will be easier to drive in traffic

I don't have the current or nearly the past dirt credentials for anyone to believe me but that just flat makes sense.
It will be easy enough to straighten out and will just fall into a turn . just the fact that the right rear is nearly melting should say volumes . As a drag racer I'd say it would be time to take a little advance , fuel and cam (advance) out of the thing and let the chassis work .

Then again I adjust valves with a degree wheel and a dial indicator so what do I know

~kop

[cheaterleaddog]

R/F Camber -3.5 Caster +4 ,l/f camber +2 caster +2,1/8 toe out
53% left 53%rear,l/r bite could be anywhere from 50lbs to 200lbs just depends on track ,driver etc...
Bilstein stock mount shock are a good starting piont
In the stock classes having good balljionts, tie rods, bushing,steering box is an advantage.
The more centrally located all the wieght in the car is located the more stable the car will be.It won't have the tail out side ways attitude but will be easier to drive in traffic

53% rear on a hobby car? must way 3200 pounds tell us all the percentages put it on a diet and lose 20 hp it will go faster

[jet1]

Without crate motors in our form of racing we would not have any racing period. Our last race that had 21 entries in various classes was all crates except for two t58 turbines in unlimited. There was three classes available for biult engines and not person entered. It's a hobby so $$ rules.