602 GM Crate vs. Built Engine
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602 GM Crate vs. Built Engine
Just for fun, and opinions of the worthy, I decided to ask this question..
What's the better option under this rules package:
GM602 Crate Engine with any Holley Carb. 602 Engines must run 6200 RPM Chip, and be on race gas.
Built engine:
9-1 Compression
361 CI Limit
No big bore/short stroke
Crank and rods must not be lightened (Cap screw rods are ok)
Flat top's only
76cc GM heads (Can open up valve sizes, but no porting)
Or EQ 76cc IMCA Stamped Head (with 1.94/1.5 Valves, no porting)
Roller Tip Rockers
Edelbrock 2701 Intake or Weiand IMCA Stamped Single plane
Holley 4412 Carburetor
No RPM limit
1.260 OD Valve Springs
Solid Camshaft
Which is better?
Both engines are allowed open race headers and both run on pump gas, or race gas.
What's the better option under this rules package:
GM602 Crate Engine with any Holley Carb. 602 Engines must run 6200 RPM Chip, and be on race gas.
Built engine:
9-1 Compression
361 CI Limit
No big bore/short stroke
Crank and rods must not be lightened (Cap screw rods are ok)
Flat top's only
76cc GM heads (Can open up valve sizes, but no porting)
Or EQ 76cc IMCA Stamped Head (with 1.94/1.5 Valves, no porting)
Roller Tip Rockers
Edelbrock 2701 Intake or Weiand IMCA Stamped Single plane
Holley 4412 Carburetor
No RPM limit
1.260 OD Valve Springs
Solid Camshaft
Which is better?
Both engines are allowed open race headers and both run on pump gas, or race gas.
Re: 602 GM Crate vs. Built Engine
you can only make so much hp with a 500 cfm carb and the crate with a 750 cfm ????
Re: 602 GM Crate vs. Built Engine
The built engine should easily make 100hp more than the GM602@6200 rpm.
What race track is running those rules???
What race track is running those rules???
More is always better!!! Most of the time.
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Re: 602 GM Crate vs. Built Engine
DW and I are having fun back and forth about this subject. We both agree on the built engine, but the only problem so far is that the crate is becoming dominant. There are also other ways to look at that, many of the top drivers went with the crate option because of the low maintence and they can't be claimed. We both agree that the chip is the down fall of the crate and we should be able to beat them. The issue now becomes IMO that the crate is limited on rpm forcing them to run a higher gear. I think that promotes traction. 2 of the best drivers that have ever raced in our sanction have told me that if it doesn't bogg slightly coming off the corner than you are loosing ground.
We are open to opinions.
We are open to opinions.
Re: 602 GM Crate vs. Built Engine
I am not sure I follow but if your car bogs any in the corner I would be elbows up and driving around you on the outside like you were anchored to the track.
It don't matter the gear or traction or all the other stuff, if you have 100HP more and can't run up front every week you gotta get to work on the chassis. I used to tell all of the folks that would spin tires in the NASCAR 2-BBL class say they could not get hooked up and I used to tell them to go talk to the All-Pro or SAS Super cars as they were hooking up 700HP all day long in 250 lap races.
If this is a no-pass track like Bowman-Gray a 602 might keep the built engine down for a couple laps but once the cars got stretched out the built engines should walk the dog.
What would you guesstimate the best 602 out there is making? Do they tech them or check anything? Cause you can cheat up a 602 real easy and buy them Original Bolts on E-bay if you don't have severe fines or suspensions for cheating.
What track do you race at?
It don't matter the gear or traction or all the other stuff, if you have 100HP more and can't run up front every week you gotta get to work on the chassis. I used to tell all of the folks that would spin tires in the NASCAR 2-BBL class say they could not get hooked up and I used to tell them to go talk to the All-Pro or SAS Super cars as they were hooking up 700HP all day long in 250 lap races.
If this is a no-pass track like Bowman-Gray a 602 might keep the built engine down for a couple laps but once the cars got stretched out the built engines should walk the dog.
What would you guesstimate the best 602 out there is making? Do they tech them or check anything? Cause you can cheat up a 602 real easy and buy them Original Bolts on E-bay if you don't have severe fines or suspensions for cheating.
What track do you race at?
More is always better!!! Most of the time.
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- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:27 am
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Re: 602 GM Crate vs. Built Engine
DW told me the crates are making about 375 hp and 400 ft.lbs of torqued. I have never seen one dynoed myself. I know if it were that easy to beat them with this extra 100hp you keep factoring into this the we wouldn't have ever asked the question.
1/4 3/8 or 1/2 mile, it doesn't matter what the track is they are winning the war so far.
1/4 3/8 or 1/2 mile, it doesn't matter what the track is they are winning the war so far.
Re: 602 GM Crate vs. Built Engine
Midge... You never want an engine to bog out of the corner... Don't know what drivers told you that..
Teched pretty hard on the 602, all you can do is oil and replace springs when they are wore out with GM Replacements.
Teched pretty hard on the 602, all you can do is oil and replace springs when they are wore out with GM Replacements.
Re: 602 GM Crate vs. Built Engine
In my opinion, you are going to be hard pressed to make over 355 - 360 hp with the open engine using those rules, I'm looking at 9.1 cr and 1.94 valves.
Re: 602 GM Crate vs. Built Engine
This is a IMCA Sport Mod class engine correct? Almost all of your posted rules are the same anyway. If you are only running 9:1 engines in this class, then this is alot of your problem when running a 2 bbl carb vs a 4 bbl carb. If you know how to build the 2 bbl engine correctly you can get almost 11.5:1 out of one. You should be also able to get 410-425 HP out of using the 2 bbl. If I were you I would stick to running the dual plane Edlebrock intake, as it should be good for 12-20 HP over the Weiend depending where at in the rpm band you look at. The only time that I can think of when you want to be able to slightly bog the engine down coming off of the corner is on a ultra dry slick track.
Re: 602 GM Crate vs. Built Engine
Most of the time the ones that I have heard bogging coming out of the corner have the traction control ignition box option. Killing timming to come out off the corner beats buzzing tires every time.
one mans magic is another mans engineering--robert heinlein I think I need some magic ,the engineering is not getting through real world testing. quote Jpankey
Re: 602 GM Crate vs. Built Engine
With 9 to 1 comp, a smog head and 500 2bbl I don't think you beat a vortec headed 9.5 to 1 4bbl hyd roller cammed engine.The open cam is your only advantage and if I understand correctly that is limited to a solid flat tappet.You can only go so big with the cam before low compression kills any advantage it can give you.You can keep going bigger and pick up numbers on the dyno but will lose drivability off the corners.That being said I'm a glutton for punishment and would try to find 487 heads stuff in a big cam and gear the piss out of it.
If you are on dirt being able to turn higher rpm has some advantages 1.easier to set the car in the corner by burping the throttle from engine braking
2.tourque is multiplied by gear ratio so even if actual output is lower than the crate by not having a chip the deeper gear you can run may well result in more tourque at the tires.3. since most passing is done off the corner you can gear it to come off hard to the flag stand and let it,s toungue hang out from there to turn entry you can't do that with a 6200 chip.
If you are on dirt being able to turn higher rpm has some advantages 1.easier to set the car in the corner by burping the throttle from engine braking
2.tourque is multiplied by gear ratio so even if actual output is lower than the crate by not having a chip the deeper gear you can run may well result in more tourque at the tires.3. since most passing is done off the corner you can gear it to come off hard to the flag stand and let it,s toungue hang out from there to turn entry you can't do that with a 6200 chip.