New Clevland Blocks

[fastvette]

Has anyone seen this yet? New blocks in cast iron and aluminum.
http://www.mooregoodink.com/news/?p=3108

[SupStk]

Sweet! Wished they went into more details. The Cleveland engine had loads of issues , most of which could be cured with a good block. Just can't imagine there would be that big of a market for them though.

[DaveMcLain]

A guy named Tod Buttermore started that Cleveland block project a few years ago and I knew he was working on it with MME to build an engine using one, maybe it's coming together and they will have some blocks on the market soon. The prototypes looked really cool.

[autodoctor911]

Sweet, I would like to see that.

I think the market is there, with the pro touring type cars that stress handling as well as retro styling. Sure most just drop in an LS motor to save weight, but some are die hard ford guys, and may not be that fond of the new Dohc 5.0 or 5.4s available.

Also, there are the Panteras, which is a very high dollar market. If this is the intended nmarket, expect it to be very expensive. The Pantera guys, wether restoring a vintage racer, or street car would pay big bucks to save 80=100lbs on a block that would also allow more displacement and durability.

The vintage racing tech inspectors better start checking the blocks at races. or just allow the Al block. These cars' engines are so expensive anyways, why not. especially if it's the only new cleveland block available.

[Kazoom]

The new mme blocks are NOT Tods blocks, this is all mme's deal and is not designed like the other.

lets hope/pray he can get a good casting made in america lol .

personaly, I would feel better if the raw castings came from China .

[Barry_R]

I have a Buttermore block in the shop as we speak (type).
Block is aluminum, and one of the first couple he's released to the outside world.

[DaveMcLain]

Wasn't getting foundry work done one of the biggest problems they were facing when getting this block together in iron and or aluminum? There's a lot that can be read on the Cleveland engine forum if you do a little searching:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/

[Kazoom]

IMO... stay away from that gong show of a forum, I know lots of guys that were band by the retarded owner/s of that site for nothing more than differing opinions. That site is so bad with BS that I almost went to the dark side and was going to build a 350 clevevy.


Barry, are the mains on that aluminum block solid or not and is it setup for a cleveland cam or not , I understand some of the old aluminum sk blocks that were cast using the old iorn pattern were cracking through the mains at over 750hp.

I believe and know Tod was having casting problems, this was a reason why I had to wait 4yrs for blocks.

I could not justify the extra cost (holy shit!) of putting together one of these unproven alum blocks together from mme for a high hp app and asked for deposits back in march, 2011.

IMO ,if Tod could of made a good connection to get raw castings from China we would have had good blocks a long time ago, with some exceptions, I do not trust some of the american casting tech.

[DaveMcLain]

Coming from someone who was banned, I know what you mean.... Still there is a LOT of really interesting information on there and I've learned about some very cool/weird parts that Ford made for the Cleveland engine while under development.

The Cleveland design has some real advantages over the Windsor in some applications so having a good aftermarket alternative block would be great. Just something with some real main webbing and cylinder wall strength would win about 90% of the battle.

[Kazoom]

YOU TOO! , I agree there is some good info there, its just not worth dealing with some of the experts? there.

Waiting all this time had me rethinking about this whole cleveland deal and I dont feel that there is ANY real HP advantage to using a cleveland block over a Clevor block setup in any application. In hindsight now I would of rather had more cossover clevor parts instead of this old out of date block.

If anyone out there could tell me why/how using a cleveland block over a clevor setup would make more HP, please let me know as I would be interested to know.

[DaveMcLain]

The Cleveland has a big crankcase which is probably helpful for power when it's run with a 4 inch stroke but one area that I definitely feel is superior is that the Cleveland uses the larger distributor gear on the cam core. This is great when running a wet sump application I just wish there was a two piece roller cam core available for the Cleveland engine.

[Kazoom]

Imo the big bigger crankcase will give no more HP and a 4.00"/4.25" crank will also fit in a W block, I dont think a bit smaller dia dist gear will have any impact on HP either, The C block lifter bore angle seems to not offer any extra HP either, nor the bit bigger front cam bearing. Really this hole thing just seems like a big waist of time now as now there are a bunch (6+)? of diffrent W block offerings out on the market, it would of made more sence to try and get some more mods done to any of these W blocks out to make them more C head friendly with more clevor coss over parts. Even the old P/S racers like dyno don and others were using/building Clevor type engines for match racing instead of using C blocks way back before it was as popular as today, they knew the Clevor was a good combo even way back then, I understand dyno made some of his fastest passes with 400ci Clevor type combos.

[k-star]

My father-in-law is part owner of a foundry, about 20 years ago me and the wife stopped in to visit and he took us through the shop. There were either 10 or 20 brand new, just cast all aluminum Cleveland blocks sitting there. Turns out the guy didn't have the money to pay the bill. He said they were getting melted down. I told him I would pay the scrap price for them. I guess there was some legal issue, because he melted them..That sucked...

Keith

[Keith Morganstein]

IMO ,if Tod could of made a good connection to get raw castings from China we would have had good blocks a long time ago, with some exceptions, I do not trust some of the american casting tech.

Troll???

[elwood]

exciting news!

they say if you have to ask "How Much?" you can't afford it,
but i wonder what a ready to final hone block will ship for?

it's too bad Mark was unable to move forward with the Buttermore project, but as i understand it there were key design features missing, unwillingness to make the changes needed... and 'foundry problems'

IMO ,if Tod could of made a good connection to get raw castings from China we would have had good blocks a long time ago, with some exceptions, I do not trust some of the american casting tech.

Troll???

and yeah, it takes more than a difference of opinion to get 'band'
keep up the good work Kaz

there's obviously no power advantage to using a Cleveland style block, the reason for the project was to have a bulletproof stock appearing Cleveland block that accepts 'stock' Cleveland internals. there are lots of guys that have stores of Cleveland parts that don't want to start over buying Clevor compatible replacements, and there are probably some that want to hide 460 cubes of Cleveland insanity under a factory air cleaner housing and EGR plate

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