That's funny, because I just had that call today. Fuel "X" will add 20hp, Carb "Z" will add 20hp, Coating "K" will add 10hp, Valve Spring "Q" will add 15hp........ Pretty soon, he's got a 500hp 602 crate engine.robert1 wrote:This stuff sounds like a JC Whitney catalog to me. Everything ads 25 more HP.
What is the Max HP on a sealed GM 604
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Re: What is the Max HP on a sealed GM 604
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Re: What is the Max HP on a sealed GM 604
Mike, I know that hydraulic roller lifters are not the lightest things in the world...How do you control the float with those things?
Re: What is the Max HP on a sealed GM 604
That's just it, you don't.sjvalleydave wrote:Mike, I know that hydraulic roller lifters are not the lightest things in the world...How do you control the float with those things?
Ask anyone that knows anything about hydraulic lifters: "what happens to the hydraulic system when you loft the valve?"
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Re: What is the Max HP on a sealed GM 604
I don't know anything about hydraulic lifters, but my guess is that they pump-up and the valve won't set back down on the seat when you need it to seat. Can't see how lofting can possibly work with a hydraulic tappet?CamKing wrote:That's just it, you don't.sjvalleydave wrote:Mike, I know that hydraulic roller lifters are not the lightest things in the world...How do you control the float with those things?
Ask anyone that knows anything about hydraulic lifters: "what happens to the hydraulic system when you loft the valve?"
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Re: What is the Max HP on a sealed GM 604
What if you set the preload to nill? Cant pump a lifter anymore...Then youre running practically a solid lifter and lofting the valve.novadude wrote:I don't know anything about hydraulic lifters, but my guess is that they pump-up and the valve won't set back down on the seat when you need it to seat. Can't see how lofting can possibly work with a hydraulic tappet?CamKing wrote:That's just it, you don't.sjvalleydave wrote:Mike, I know that hydraulic roller lifters are not the lightest things in the world...How do you control the float with those things?
Ask anyone that knows anything about hydraulic lifters: "what happens to the hydraulic system when you loft the valve?"
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Re: What is the Max HP on a sealed GM 604
With the ramp that's on the stock GM 604 cam, that would put the intake valve closing at 92ABDCloudandproud wrote:What if you set the preload to nill? Cant pump a lifter anymore...Then youre running practically a solid lifter and lofting the valve.
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Re: What is the Max HP on a sealed GM 604
Guess that'd be cool if 604 crate engines had a 16:1 SCR and turned high engine speeds.CamKing wrote:With the ramp that's on the stock GM 604 cam, that would put the intake valve closing at 92ABDCloudandproud wrote:What if you set the preload to nill? Cant pump a lifter anymore...Then youre running practically a solid lifter and lofting the valve.
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Re: What is the Max HP on a sealed GM 604
CamKing wrote:With the ramp that's on the stock GM 604 cam, that would put the intake valve closing at 92ABDCloudandproud wrote:What if you set the preload to nill? Cant pump a lifter anymore...Then youre running practically a solid lifter and lofting the valve.
Can you explain the math on that for me? Im not sure how just going solid would do that much. How can you predict the closing point with loft considering it is rpm/valvespring/valvetrain wieght and geometry dependant?
Isnt this the theory behind setting a very light preload on a hyd lifter? It cant pump up anymore, therefore it wont hold the valve off the seat...?
Im not doubting you...I am here to learn... just would like to know where my thinking is flawed...
Last edited by loudandproud on Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is the Max HP on a sealed GM 604
I've got a question on that... can you loft a roller? I would have thought that the line-contact loading of the roller wheel crashing back down on the cam (and the resultant high compressive stress) would wreck things in short order.
Re: What is the Max HP on a sealed GM 604
http://www.google.com/search?q=minumum+ ... h=835&bs=1sjvalleydave wrote:Mike, I know that hydraulic roller lifters are not the lightest things in the world...How do you control the float with those things?
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Re: What is the Max HP on a sealed GM 604
oops... its a roller. I thought it was a hyd. Flat like the 602 crate... my bad.novadude wrote:I've got a question on that... can you loft a roller? I would have thought that the line-contact loading of the roller wheel crashing back down on the cam (and the resultant high compressive stress) would wreck things in short order.
Yeah lofting a roller wouldnt work out good.
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Re: What is the Max HP on a sealed GM 604
Mike would know, but theoretically, seems like it should be possible to loft a roller and have it touch down lightly on the flank like a ski jumper, rather than smashing onto the closing side ramp, like a skier "out-jumping" the hill and hitting hard out on the run out area.
Better yet, use a rev-kit that seats on the lifter OD (I suppose not permitted in this application) and let the push rod do the pole-vaulting.
Better yet, use a rev-kit that seats on the lifter OD (I suppose not permitted in this application) and let the push rod do the pole-vaulting.
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Re: What is the Max HP on a sealed GM 604
no one has mentioned that most of these classes require a rev limiter to 6200 rpm or something close to that for the 604. Are these motors for classes that have no rev limit, or are they able to cheat that also?
this idea of valve loft really intreagues me though. If I am running a cam lift rule, this seems to be a great idea. what if I do use a rev kit? would the pushrod need a guide sleeve or something to do the floating. that seems like the way to make it last. If the pushrod does the floating, if the point of reapplying contact is a hard hit, the hydraulic lifter could absorb more or all of the high forces. don't the physics involved in spring oscillation only allow doing this at a particular rpm, where the frequency of the spring matches the frequency of the valve event?
this idea of valve loft really intreagues me though. If I am running a cam lift rule, this seems to be a great idea. what if I do use a rev kit? would the pushrod need a guide sleeve or something to do the floating. that seems like the way to make it last. If the pushrod does the floating, if the point of reapplying contact is a hard hit, the hydraulic lifter could absorb more or all of the high forces. don't the physics involved in spring oscillation only allow doing this at a particular rpm, where the frequency of the spring matches the frequency of the valve event?
Last edited by autodoctor911 on Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What is the Max HP on a sealed GM 604
Rookie, those type lifters are not legal to run...We are talking about lofting a hydraulic roller lifter in a 604 crate engine...
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Re: What is the Max HP on a sealed GM 604
The Crate DLM 604's in the West do not have to run a RPM chip...I just have heard that by 6800 or so they are pretty much done...I know Raceman14 has stated that he has some 604's running up toward 7400 rpm, but most I've heard say 6800-7000 tops