Oxygenated fuel 20+ Horse power?

[jmarkaudio]

I think the average guys will see gains, the guys with high efficiency engines like an SB2 may not see so much. As long as they had the proper fuel for their engine to begin with...

[David Redszus]

Power – Q16 has 10% oxygen content by weight, requiring a 4-6% increase in fuel flow, which contributes to making 3-5% more power than competitors’ 116 octane fuels. With its rapid vaporization rate, Q16 has superior burning speed and makes more pressure in the cylinders, both of which also make more power. Q16 still has relatively low vapor pressure, unusual in a fuel with an oxygen content and vaporization rate this high

Rapid vaporization in bold from VP's tech papers is what I made mention on, IF the fuel improves vaporization in the induction, it will improve mixture distribution. No, it's not a given for all oxygenated fuels, but it appears this has been designed into Q16. I think this may be at least part of the gains seen by Q16.

Compared to VP113, Q16 has a lower RVP, higher distillation temps (below 50%), so how does it produce a rapid vaporization rate?
The heat of vaporization of MTBE (which is the major oxygenate component) is not very high so charge cooling is not indicatied.
If fuel enrichment is 8% and Q16 contains 10% oxygen, then the oxygen content of the inlet charge is increased by 0.8%. While this is not insignificant, it does not suggest a 3-5% increase in power.

[raceman14]

I am pretty sure oxy fuels are made differently as well as the oxygen containing compound. Some cheapskate fuel companies are passing off ethanol or propyl alcohol as an oxygenate and those fuels don't usually make the big smoke like the VP stuff does

[MadBill]

Vaporization characteristics are one potential factor re whether or not an engine responds well to such fuels. E.g., if an engine was somewhat constricted on intake manifold flow, increased vaporization might cause significant charge displacement, whereas one with a very free flowing manifold might see no or little flow loss...

[andyf]

Intake restriction was one of the possible reasons why my 514 Mopar didn't pick up any power with the oxygenated fuel. The engine makes about 820 hp and has a box stock Super Victor intake on it. One of our ideas was that the intake restriction prevented any gains from the fuel but I'm not positive that was the issue. The engine was also only 12:1 compression so it didn't really need Q16.

I'm sure there is a reason why the oxygenated fuels increase power in some engines but not in others, but nobody has laid it out for me yet. The VP tech line didn't really have any answers for me, but I might have caught the guy on a tough day. I'm sure there is power there to be unlocked, just not sure yet what the key is.

[David Redszus]

Intake restriction was one of the possible reasons why my 514 Mopar didn't pick up any power with the oxygenated fuel. The engine makes about 820 hp and has a box stock Super Victor intake on it. One of our ideas was that the intake restriction prevented any gains from the fuel but I'm not positive that was the issue. The engine was also only 12:1 compression so it didn't really need Q16.

I'm sure there is a reason why the oxygenated fuels increase power in some engines but not in others, but nobody has laid it out for me yet. The VP tech line didn't really have any answers for me, but I might have caught the guy on a tough day. I'm sure there is power there to be unlocked, just not sure yet what the key is.

Oxygnated fuels do not produce an increase in horsepower just because they contain very small amounts of oxygen.
But an oxygenated fuel, because of a number of different fuel characteristics MIGHT produce an improvement in some engine, but not in others. Remember that oxygenates are not added to fuels to increase power; they are added as an octane improver substitute for lead which was banned from some circuits.

Many years ago, I was asked to blend a special fuel for an OEM factory watercraft race team. They had a 1200cc two stroke that was being destroyed on the dyno. I made a fuel very, very similar to Q16. It had very high octane and a reasonable vapor pressure and low end distillation curve. When the mixture and ignition timing were reset, it immediately made 40 hp more that previous and more important, it stayed together. It subsequently won the national championship for its class.

The reason it worked was simply that the factory developers did not have to overfuel the engine to control detonation and could put the ignition timing back where it ran best without fear of destruction.

While it was technically true that my fuel made 40 more horses, I would have been a liar to claim that the same would result when used in other engines.

[bobqzzi]

[quote="David Redszus Remember that oxygenates are not added to fuels to increase power; they are added as an octane improver substitute for lead which was banned from some circuits.

[/quote]

This seems untrue on the face of it. There are many heavily leaded fuels with oxygenates

[David Redszus]

[quote="David Redszus Remember that oxygenates are not added to fuels to increase power; they are added as an octane improver substitute for lead which was banned from some circuits.

This seems untrue on the face of it. There are many heavily leaded fuels with oxygenates

Yes, that has become the fact. But in earlier days it was not. In fact, there was an understanding among refineries (not mere blenders) that oxygenates would not be added to leaded race fuels. Then some blenders discovered it had marketing appeal and helped sell race fuel. The rest is pisstory.

One fact that often escapes tuners and amateur blenders is how to obtain the desired MON numbers as well as the RON numbers. When we average those numbers we obscure the important factor of fuel octane sensitivity, which is the difference between MON and RON. For an ideal fuel, the RON and MON values would be identical. Not easy to do.

[rookie]

It's ashamed fuel company's and the EPA crooks don't join forces and produce the best fuel for power and economy.

[MadBill]

[quote="David Redszus Remember that oxygenates are not added to fuels to increase power; they are added as an octane improver substitute for lead which was banned from some circuits.

This seems untrue on the face of it. There are many heavily leaded fuels with oxygenates

Yes, that has become the fact. But in earlier days it was not. In fact, there was an understanding among refineries (not mere blenders) that oxygenates would not be added to leaded race fuels. Then some blenders discovered it had marketing appeal and helped sell race fuel. The rest is pisstory.

One fact that often escapes tuners and amateur blenders is how to obtain the desired MON numbers as well as the RON numbers. When we average those numbers we obscure the important factor of fuel octane sensitivity, which is the difference between MON and RON. For an ideal fuel, the RON and MON values would be identical. Not easy to do.

By definition, iso octane has a sensitivity rating of zero. Are there any practical choices that have negative sensitivity?

[David Redszus]

[quote="David Redszus Remember that oxygenates are not added to fuels to increase power; they are added as an octane improver substitute for lead which was banned from some circuits.

This seems untrue on the face of it. There are many heavily leaded fuels with oxygenates

Yes, that has become the fact. But in earlier days it was not. In fact, there was an understanding among refineries (not mere blenders) that oxygenates would not be added to leaded race fuels. Then some blenders discovered it had marketing appeal and helped sell race fuel. The rest is pisstory.

One fact that often escapes tuners and amateur blenders is how to obtain the desired MON numbers as well as the RON numbers. When we average those numbers we obscure the important factor of fuel octane sensitivity, which is the difference between MON and RON. For an ideal fuel, the RON and MON values would be identical. Not easy to do.

By definition, iso octane has a sensitivity rating of zero. Are there any practical choices that have negative sensitivity?

Octane sensitivity numbers indicate whether a fuel is more or less prone to detonation at either high speeds or lower speeds.

[MadBill]

But since the reference of "100" for both the Research and the Motor Method are derived from the knock resistance of iso octane, a fuel with less knock sensitivity to the more severe conditions of the Motor Method would have a negative sensitivity and a higher Motor than Research octane rating...

[Mike Croley]

That's the first i've heard of an agreement between producers not to oxygenate leaded race fuels . I can think of two refineries in the Chicago area that may have concurred , but the others sure didn't know anything about it .

The octane tests known as Research Octane and Motor Octane are used to determine the octane requirements ( sensitivity ) of an engine at both low rpm and high rpm . The load varies as well .

[David Redszus]

It's ashamed fuel company's and the EPA crooks don't join forces and produce the best fuel for power and economy.

The primary objective a real refinery is to produce the fuel that is demanded by OEMs attempting to meet current emission and MPG requirements.

The primary objective of a race fuel marketer is to produce whatever they can sell to a very uninformed racing customer.

[maxc]

It's ashamed fuel company's and the EPA crooks don't join forces and produce the best fuel for power and economy.

The primary objective a real refinery is to produce the fuel that is demanded by OEMs attempting to meet current emission and MPG requirements.

The primary objective of a race fuel marketer is to produce whatever they can sell to a very uninformed racing customer.

A very reliable source told me car company's use different fuel than at the pump for emission testing.