lun40119 wrote:402" Dart Pro 1 (non rr head with a 2.080valve) 11.6:1, 3700lbs has gone 10.13 so far with the mufflers on. What does that show for power?
PS. It was built on the east coast.
Sounds like about 575 - 600 hp. I had a car at 3290 lb 357ci sbf 12.5 to 1 305 cfm AFR cylinder head that ran 10.20's in the heat and made 537 hp. My friends car is 3150lb with a 12.7 to 1 406ci Brodix 23 deg heads made 622 hp ans runs 9.70's all day long. As i've said before dyno numbers are only numbers and dont mean anything.
My bracket 406's in the 90's made 650 to 675 with 23 degree heads. 6 in rods, 12.5 to 1 comp, Brodix 11X heads ported, 2,125x 1.610, 1.65x1.6 rockers& girdle, Bowtie intake stock, matched, 850 carb, 38deg spark. Engle roller 261/265@ .050 with 108 centerline. Dynoed with an 14in aircleaner.
lun40119 wrote:Stan can you dumb up the math for me. I am from up north.
► 3700 - 3150 = 550 <--- Difference in weight between the two cars
► 550 / 1000 = 0.55 <--- Normally in this range a weight reduction of 100 lbs is about .1 of a second
► 10.13 - .55 = 9.58 <--- Your ET at his weight. Based on some other calculations I got 9.601 ET
What was interesting is he had you making less HP then his friend.
Stan
Thanks.........it is kind of what I thought you meant. I do know what the engine itself made on two different dyno's in NC. Both very reputable. But that stuff doesn't matter. I think it runs well for a little motor on pump gas. Especially in a heavy car. Take care fella.
I had to go in some of your threads and you didn't post the sheets to see what the power was. I did find where you stated you guys were at 1.8hp per cubic inch. You said it is a 402 small block so this would be 723.6 horsepower before you and Tom started gaining horsepower. I know Butch said your transmission is a low drag unit but I'm not sure so maybe you could clarify this because he said you have a Turbo 350 and I thought for that power you would have either a Turbo 400 or a two speed Glide.
I do agree you are not showing the horsepower on the track but I don't see how leaving at a higher rpm will help at all. I know you said your stall converter was very high rpm and you were leaving at 2,200RPM. The rpm your at off the line is simply the staging rpm and if the engine will respond with no hesitation when you floor it wide open it is very possible to turn faster times from the lower stage rpm. This is because if the stall converter is a 5500RPM no matter what the rpm is on the transmission brake the engine will flash to that 5500RPM when you release the transmission brake and the same is true with the lower rpm launch from the transmission brake and foot brake. If the engine will respond from the lower rpm without hesitation it will hit the tires and suspension harder. The way this was explained to me by your buddy Butch when I had a converter issue and the converter company I use confirmed his analogy was perfect. I will just copy and past his e-mail to me so you can see it and if your lucky you can understand it because he had to explain it to me on the phone. I was lost
Shane, the problem with your converter is your staging rpms too low and dont foot brake that thing ever. The stall is say 6200rpm like mine, if you foot brake leave at 2500rpm that is your staging rpm so if you can whack it wide open at 2500rpm with no hesitation it will flash the converter to 6200rpm and if you were to stage at 4500rpm its still gonna flash at 6200rpm, that rpm is just your stage rpm and off the brake the same way thus your traction issues are from the rpm, lets say you stage at 2500rpm and whack it wide open, the rpms have a running hit on the converter thus nailing the rear tires and suspension, where if you stage at 5800rpm you dont have the running hit but still flash 6200rpm, so think if the 2500rpm launchh as a running punch at a guy and your 5800rpm launch as a punch standing in front of him with no running start
TORQUE INC wrote:So you think you are just gonna buy the parts from summit or special order parts from the vendors ,bolt it together and make 700HP ?
Would make more sense to pay one of these experts on this board to build you a dynoed bullet for that THING and save yourself alot of grief
Sure would be nice if it were that simple.If it were the motor would be making more than 700 hp.Certainly the reason why I'm here is to pick the grey matter of the pro's.Once all the right parts are here been clearanced and fitted will bolt it together myself,Always have.
Too expensive to experiment trying this and that for parts.Makes much more sense to bolt together a tried and true combination,then play around tweaking timing and afr.
What are some of the reasons to stay away from aluminum blocks,seems they are everywhere today.
TORQUE INC wrote:So you think you are just gonna buy the parts from summit or special order parts from the vendors ,bolt it together and make 700HP ?
Would make more sense to pay one of these experts on this board to build you a dynoed bullet for that THING and save yourself alot of grief
Sure would be nice if it were that simple.If it were the motor would be making more than 700 hp.Certainly the reason why I'm here is to pick the grey matter of the pro's.Once all the right parts are here been clearanced and fitted will bolt it together myself,Always have.
Too expensive to experiment trying this and that for parts.Makes much more sense to bolt together a tried and true combination,then play around tweaking timing and afr.
What are some of the reasons to stay away from aluminum blocks,seems they are everywhere today.
The aluminum blocks yield some 40 HP less over their (decent) counterparts.
Much like aluminum heads, in a true "apples-to-apples" test, iron heads make more power!
Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. Some of the Fire Departments here on Long Island were/are using aluminum blocks.
Sept. 2019 - Drag-Week Winner - New York Street Ride 7.23+ @ 196+ @ 3800#+
TORQUE INC wrote:So you think you are just gonna buy the parts from summit or special order parts from the vendors ,bolt it together and make 700HP ?
Would make more sense to pay one of these experts on this board to build you a dynoed bullet for that THING and save yourself alot of grief
Sure would be nice if it were that simple.If it were the motor would be making more than 700 hp.Certainly the reason why I'm here is to pick the grey matter of the pro's.Once all the right parts are here been clearanced and fitted will bolt it together myself,Always have.
Too expensive to experiment trying this and that for parts.Makes much more sense to bolt together a tried and true combination,then play around tweaking timing and afr.
What are some of the reasons to stay away from aluminum blocks,seems they are everywhere today.
The aluminum blocks yield some 40 HP less over their (decent) counterparts.
Much like aluminum heads, in a true "apples-to-apples" test, iron heads make more power!
Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. Some of the Fire Departments here on Long Island were/are using aluminum blocks.
Other than a little less power any other issues.The weight savings on a motorcycle should more than make up for power losses.
If you want a killer iron head, I know of a larger CNC program that will make lots of power. Same head that is used on a couple SWJF cars that are always 1-4 out of a 16 car field.. Move a ton of air and sized correct!
This same program is available in aluminum as well.
1997bird wrote:I had to go in some of your threads and you didn't post the sheets to see what the power was. I did find where you stated you guys were at 1.8hp per cubic inch. You said it is a 402 small block so this would be 723.6 horsepower before you and Tom started gaining horsepower. I know Butch said your transmission is a low drag unit but I'm not sure so maybe you could clarify this because he said you have a Turbo 350 and I thought for that power you would have either a Turbo 400 or a two speed Glide.
I do agree you are not showing the horsepower on the track but I don't see how leaving at a higher rpm will help at all. I know you said your stall converter was very high rpm and you were leaving at 2,200RPM. The rpm your at off the line is simply the staging rpm and if the engine will respond with no hesitation when you floor it wide open it is very possible to turn faster times from the lower stage rpm. This is because if the stall converter is a 5500RPM no matter what the rpm is on the transmission brake the engine will flash to that 5500RPM when you release the transmission brake and the same is true with the lower rpm launch from the transmission brake and foot brake. If the engine will respond from the lower rpm without hesitation it will hit the tires and suspension harder. The way this was explained to me by your buddy Butch when I had a converter issue and the converter company I use confirmed his analogy was perfect. I will just copy and past his e-mail to me so you can see it and if your lucky you can understand it because he had to explain it to me on the phone. I was lost
Shane, the problem with your converter is your staging rpms too low and dont foot brake that thing ever. The stall is say 6200rpm like mine, if you foot brake leave at 2500rpm that is your staging rpm so if you can whack it wide open at 2500rpm with no hesitation it will flash the converter to 6200rpm and if you were to stage at 4500rpm its still gonna flash at 6200rpm, that rpm is just your stage rpm and off the brake the same way thus your traction issues are from the rpm, lets say you stage at 2500rpm and whack it wide open, the rpms have a running hit on the converter thus nailing the rear tires and suspension, where if you stage at 5800rpm you dont have the running hit but still flash 6200rpm, so think if the 2500rpm launchh as a running punch at a guy and your 5800rpm launch as a punch standing in front of him with no running start
I saw Jake run at Tulsa after they drove from the other tracks in Dragweek . I don't think you can compare a footbraked, 3700 lb., smallblock Chevelle to a transbrake Mustang. I doubt the coinverter in Jake's car will flash over 5500 and i don't think he has a lightweight T-350, but i could be wrong. For most of Dragweek he had worn out tires and only got good, bias ply, slicks at Tulsa. The air was good but not ATCO good. I think a good set of Hoosier Radial slicks would probably pick up a tenth or so from the 10.19 he ran here. So maybe there is a little left in the weather, little left in traction and a little left in the perfect converter, not to mention the Chevelle is not very aerodynamic. Put Jake's engine in a 3150 lb. Mustang or Camaro and it would probably go 9.60s-9.70s on most days.
1997bird wrote:I had to go in some of your threads and you didn't post the sheets to see what the power was. I did find where you stated you guys were at 1.8hp per cubic inch. You said it is a 402 small block so this would be 723.6 horsepower before you and Tom started gaining horsepower. I know Butch said your transmission is a low drag unit but I'm not sure so maybe you could clarify this because he said you have a Turbo 350 and I thought for that power you would have either a Turbo 400 or a two speed Glide.
I do agree you are not showing the horsepower on the track but I don't see how leaving at a higher rpm will help at all. I know you said your stall converter was very high rpm and you were leaving at 2,200RPM. The rpm your at off the line is simply the staging rpm and if the engine will respond with no hesitation when you floor it wide open it is very possible to turn faster times from the lower stage rpm. This is because if the stall converter is a 5500RPM no matter what the rpm is on the transmission brake the engine will flash to that 5500RPM when you release the transmission brake and the same is true with the lower rpm launch from the transmission brake and foot brake. If the engine will respond from the lower rpm without hesitation it will hit the tires and suspension harder. The way this was explained to me by your buddy Butch when I had a converter issue and the converter company I use confirmed his analogy was perfect. I will just copy and past his e-mail to me so you can see it and if your lucky you can understand it because he had to explain it to me on the phone. I was lost
Shane, the problem with your converter is your staging rpms too low and dont foot brake that thing ever. The stall is say 6200rpm like mine, if you foot brake leave at 2500rpm that is your staging rpm so if you can whack it wide open at 2500rpm with no hesitation it will flash the converter to 6200rpm and if you were to stage at 4500rpm its still gonna flash at 6200rpm, that rpm is just your stage rpm and off the brake the same way thus your traction issues are from the rpm, lets say you stage at 2500rpm and whack it wide open, the rpms have a running hit on the converter thus nailing the rear tires and suspension, where if you stage at 5800rpm you dont have the running hit but still flash 6200rpm, so think if the 2500rpm launchh as a running punch at a guy and your 5800rpm launch as a punch standing in front of him with no running start
I saw Jake run at Tulsa after they drove from the other tracks in Dragweek . I don't think you can compare a footbraked, 3700 lb., smallblock Chevelle to a transbrake Mustang. I doubt the coinverter in Jake's car will flash over 5500 and i don't think he has a lightweight T-350, but i could be wrong. For most of Dragweek he had worn out tires and only got good, bias ply, slicks at Tulsa. The air was good but not ATCO good. I think a good set of Hoosier Radial slicks would probably pick up a tenth or so from the 10.19 he ran here. So maybe there is a little left in the weather, little left in traction and a little left in the perfect converter, not to mention the Chevelle is not very aerodynamic. Put Jake's engine in a 3150 lb. Mustang or Camaro and it would probably go 9.60s-9.70s on most days.
Butch sent me a reply to your post. I have the Drag Radial 275/60-15 for my Camaro I will finish soon.
Shane, Jake has stated he has a TH350 Coan, and it is lower drag than a TH400. He posted it was the XLT which IIRC is ultra low drag or low drag, Jake has also stated he has a billet stator 6500rpm stall converter, after Drag Week he replied to another poster that his Coan flashed to 6900rpm which is a long ways away from 5500rpm. Also include this, Where was I comparing Jake's times compared to a trans brake launched Mustang? People are really starting to pull things out of the air to fit the "technical" things. The facts are Jake has a 725hp engine, with a 6900rpm flash converter in a TH350 and 4.88's in the Dana rear, that should be almost 1 second faster and is missing 75hp to 100hp tops at the rear, even Jake's comments to Jeff @ Dart Forum indicate he thought it was going to be in the 9.60's when he told Jeff he was gonna need every bit of that 350 shot. Now the tires etc, that is just stuff you have to try. Jake did a great job on Drag Week, now he has time to search for the ET
