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700+hp sbc 23 degree heads

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700+hp sbc 23 degree heads

Postby mdross1 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:28 am

Started a thread asking how much hp from AFR heads a while ago,now time to focus.Want to use aluminum block, 23 degree heads,shoot for operating range 3000/7000.Hoping for suggestions on block, heads, bore, stroke,roller cam,intake,dbl pmp.Want to get the block and heads before real cold weather,so can start polishing them.m ross
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Re: 700+hp sbc 23 degree heads

Postby cspeier » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:49 am

I stopped doing this because I catch too much shit, but here it goes.

Had a customer dyno on Larry Meaux's dyno. The build, the results, and what could have been different. The was my v2.50/23º Pro-Filer core. Larry has an honest dyno.

Made 670hp@6700 and 551@6000 and Larry offered suggestions to what could have been done to make 700hp on his dyno

Image

they could have made in 700+ HP Range if :

1- nothing was actually CC'd , so they were guessing it was 14:1 CompRatio,
but from Cranking psi & Cam Specs it looked like between 12.4 to 12.5:1 CR,
and the Dyno Torque reflected that too that it was probably more like 12.4-12.5:1.

2- They had brand new Headers with correct Specs for their combination,
but they would not fit the Dyno , they missed by 1 inch on each side from clearing,
so we used another way too short, un-Equal length Primaries , set of Headers
which tried to cause double Torque Peaks.

Their other Headers would have definetly made more Peak Torque
more inline with PipeMax prediction ,
along with more HP

3- No Vacuum Pump.
if they would have had a good Vac Pump with 10-13+ inches Hg Vac,
that would have been worth 20-25 + HP especially with that front shallow step in their Oil Pan.

4- also a little more HP could have been made tweaking Air Bleeds more on Carb
but we didn't have any more blank Air Bleed Jets to drill.
i made only one change in Air Bleeds in the front and it flattened TQ and HP Curve
but it still wasn't enough.... could have made a little more HP with Air Bleeds.

5- they really needed a little more Valve Lifts
but its basically a ET Bracket engine
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Re: 700+hp sbc 23 degree heads

Postby bigjoe1 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:51 am

The alu block is NOT a good idea, I have had several really BAD results. Just get a Dart iron block, 434 crank assembly, some AFR 245 heads, and you can make 750 HP on pump gas. On serious race builds, I am seeing very close to 900 HP with the same AFR 245 heads and a lot of trick parts to go along with them. Do not waste your money on the alu block.


JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES
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Re: 700+hp sbc 23 degree heads

Postby cspeier » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:55 am

bigjoe1 wrote:The alu block is NOT a good idea, I have had several really BAD results. Just get a Dart iron block, 434 crank assembly, some AFR 245 heads, and you can make 750 HP on pump gas. On serious race builds, I am seeing very close to 900 HP with the same AFR 245 heads and a lot of trick parts to go along with them. Do not waste your money on the alu block.


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900?? Nah, not in this lifetime! :D We both know there isn't enough CSA at the pinch to support that, unless you have opened them up..

If so, post up a sheet..
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Re: 700+hp sbc 23 degree heads

Postby lun40119 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:09 am

Psst........I'll be following along quietly. :)
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Re: 700+hp sbc 23 degree heads

Postby BEARCAT » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:15 am

On the east coast we see about 600-650 on the best large cube pump gas engines. Our best race engines with the All Pro 23 deg heads 15 to 1 plus comp. ect. ect. will make about 725-750 hp single carb and cast manifold and back it up on the race track. Some of the best 13 deg - 15 deg engines make in the 825-850 hp range and back it up on the race track. Maybe we are just missing the boat on how to make the BIG hp numbers the some of the internet gurus make. We have had our engines make 625 hp and run 2 tenths faster than the engines that make 800 hp so remember dynos are only a number provided by the person running it. When looking at an engine dont ask how much hp it can make ask how fast will it run and show me examples.
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Re: 700+hp sbc 23 degree heads

Postby lun40119 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:34 am

402" Dart Pro 1 (non rr head with a 2.080valve) 11.6:1, 3700lbs has gone 10.13 so far with the mufflers on. What does that show for power?

PS. It was built on the east coast. :)
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Re: 700+hp sbc 23 degree heads

Postby ronco » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:15 am

Here ars some of the parts i used on my 414" sbc to make 697 hp. Dart little M, Scat 3.875 crank, Lunati Pro Mod rods, Je pistons 14.7 to 1, Comp Cam 278/284, 109 in at 105, lift 652/ 661, and with 1.6 on IN about 700, AFR 227 heads( standart c&c ) Dart intake and a 1050 Dominator on e85.
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Re: 700+hp sbc 23 degree heads

Postby BlitzA64 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:40 pm

Hey Big Joe, what is the problem with the Aluminum block? Ring seal? I had a hell of a time but mine seems to be sealed OK now........
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Re: 700+hp sbc 23 degree heads

Postby A Atwood » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:45 pm

Like I said in the other thread. Build a 434 or 440, put some really nasty 23* heads(such as fully ported Dart 230s or AFR 245s) and the swap will be straight forward and as simple as possible. You should end up right near 700 hp if done right and still be drivable on the street.
I don't like the AL block idea either.
ARN
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Re: 700+hp sbc 23 degree heads

Postby Wolfplace » Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:17 pm

I posted this in your other thread but getting to the high 600's is not that difficult honest numbers
This is also a "west coast dyno" but most who know me know it is an "honest" one & has been backed up by performance
Anyway if you are wanting a pretty simple high 600HP combo on pump gas I think you would be reasonably happy with this one & with a change or two 700 is not a stretch

And props do go to Chad for the intake on this, he did a killer job

This was with AFR 235's right out of the box except for checking springs etc

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Re: 700+hp sbc 23 degree heads

Postby TORQUE INC » Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:46 pm

So you think you are just gonna buy the parts from summit or special order parts from the vendors ,bolt it together and make 700HP ?

Would make more sense to pay one of these experts on this board to build you a dynoed bullet for that THING and save yourself alot of grief :?:
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Re: 700+hp sbc 23 degree heads

Postby BEARCAT » Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:50 pm

[quote="lun40119"]402" Dart Pro 1 (non rr head with a 2.080valve) 11.6:1, 3700lbs has gone 10.13 so far with the mufflers on. What does that show for power?

PS. It was built on the east coast. :)[/quote]


Sounds like about 575 - 600 hp. I had a car at 3290 lb 357ci sbf 12.5 to 1 305 cfm AFR cylinder head that ran 10.20's in the heat and made 537 hp. My friends car is 3150lb with a 12.7 to 1 406ci Brodix 23 deg heads made 622 hp ans runs 9.70's all day long. As i've said before dyno numbers are only numbers and dont mean anything.
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Re: 700+hp sbc 23 degree heads

Postby lun40119 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:23 pm

Wow...... :-k
Jake
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http://www.youtube.com/user/excedrin67? ... 1Tff2or1oY
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Re: 700+hp sbc 23 degree heads

Postby lun40119 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:28 pm

BEARCAT wrote:
lun40119 wrote:402" Dart Pro 1 (non rr head with a 2.080valve) 11.6:1, 3700lbs has gone 10.13 so far with the mufflers on. What does that show for power?

PS. It was built on the east coast. :)



Sounds like about 575 - 600 hp. I had a car at 3290 lb 357ci sbf 12.5 to 1 305 cfm AFR cylinder head that ran 10.20's in the heat and made 537 hp. My friends car is 3150lb with a 12.7 to 1 406ci Brodix 23 deg heads made 622 hp ans runs 9.70's all day long. As i've said before dyno numbers are only numbers and dont mean anything.


The calculators I checked for the first one that you quoted said 612 and 621 for 3290 at 10.20.

The second........9.70 at 3150 is 691 and 682.

What are you using to convert track time to HP?
Jake
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3V Performance 23º Pumpgas 402
http://www.youtube.com/user/excedrin67? ... 1Tff2or1oY
1st Place Drag Week 2012 SB/NA
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