SpeedTalk Store - Opinion Columns

AFR heads on 406 sbc, how much hp

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

Re: AFR heads on 406 sbc, how much hp

Postby Joel Dubose » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:52 pm

It has been my observation that the better the heads and airflow package the milder the cam, the more streetable you can make it. On this big of an engine trq will be easy to make in trade for power. A small set of heads would make trq really early in the rpm band making it harder to make HP. Now having said this at 700+ HP are you really going to be able to use regular pump gas. Probably not so you get to make a decision about what heads and what cam work best for cylinder pressure of the intended fuel. You may consider calling a fuel guy like David R, or TIM Wide to discuss best options .
JDE Heads & Manifolds
I'm WD with AFR,Edelbrock and many other parts and castings suppliers.
JDE has port programs In popular castings for performance uses, If you would like a port designed for your project contact me 704-658-6951
Joel Dubose
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 3:36 pm

Re: AFR heads on 406 sbc, how much hp

Postby Fatman » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:41 pm

Larry, very impressive build you have there.

" Dart Pro 1's 23 deg Heads unwelded, no epoxy"

I didn't think you could support that kind of rpm with unwelded P/rod. Is the velocity too fast though prod pinch? Are the dart pro1s the best 23 deg head to use for the kind of build that you have listed. thanks
Fatman
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 986
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:30 am

Re: AFR heads on 406 sbc, how much hp

Postby Joel Dubose » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:03 pm

Imo the AFR 245 is the best head for the job. You mentioned seeing 400 cfm 23* heads , who's are those???
JDE Heads & Manifolds
I'm WD with AFR,Edelbrock and many other parts and castings suppliers.
JDE has port programs In popular castings for performance uses, If you would like a port designed for your project contact me 704-658-6951
Joel Dubose
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 3:36 pm

Re: AFR heads on 406 sbc, how much hp

Postby cspeier » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:19 pm

Joel Dubose wrote:Imo the AFR 245 is the best head for the job. You mentioned seeing 400 cfm 23* heads , who's are those???



You'll have a HARD time getting a Raised Runner 2.180 valve 23 degree to flow 380cfm, 400cfm????
cspeier
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 1680
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:31 pm
Location: Hays Kansas

Re: AFR heads on 406 sbc, how much hp

Postby Joel Dubose » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:32 pm

cspeier wrote:
Joel Dubose wrote:Imo the AFR 245 is the best head for the job. You mentioned seeing 400 cfm 23* heads , who's are those???



You'll have a HARD time getting a Raised Runner 2.180 valve 23 degree to flow 380cfm, 400cfm????


Not sure what your saying. I was asking him were he had seen 400 cfm out of 23* heads, I know of some but I would be surprised if anyone knows about them.
mdross1 wrote:

Joel,whose heads did you use on those pulls.There are a lot of choices,some I have read flow near 400cfm.My plan to this point is an aluminum block approx 427ci, would really like to use a head that has the standard exhaust bolt pattern,Super Victor intake.Once the block and heads I decide on are here will call Comp Cams,then see about getting a dbl pmper.Mike Ross
JDE Heads & Manifolds
I'm WD with AFR,Edelbrock and many other parts and castings suppliers.
JDE has port programs In popular castings for performance uses, If you would like a port designed for your project contact me 704-658-6951
Joel Dubose
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 3:36 pm

Re: AFR heads on 406 sbc, how much hp

Postby cspeier » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:36 pm

Joel Dubose wrote:
cspeier wrote:
Joel Dubose wrote:Imo the AFR 245 is the best head for the job. You mentioned seeing 400 cfm 23* heads , who's are those???



You'll have a HARD time getting a Raised Runner 2.180 valve 23 degree to flow 380cfm, 400cfm????


Not sure what your saying. I was asking him were he had seen 400 cfm out of 23* heads, I know of some but I would be surprised if anyone knows about them.
mdross1 wrote:

Joel,whose heads did you use on those pulls.There are a lot of choices,some I have read flow near 400cfm.My plan to this point is an aluminum block approx 427ci, would really like to use a head that has the standard exhaust bolt pattern,Super Victor intake.Once the block and heads I decide on are here will call Comp Cams,then see about getting a dbl pmper.Mike Ross



I'm saying, 400 cfm out of a standard runner 23 degree isn't happening, IMO. I'm not sure it's possible with a raised runner.

I have a set of standard runner 23 degrees that flow 375 through the injector. Trust me, they have had everything done to them you can imagine. They have a 2.150/1.580 valve and 3.4in at the pinch and pour 300+cc.
cspeier
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 1680
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:31 pm
Location: Hays Kansas

Re: AFR heads on 406 sbc, how much hp

Postby Joel Dubose » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:06 pm

Ahhh, got ya.
JDE Heads & Manifolds
I'm WD with AFR,Edelbrock and many other parts and castings suppliers.
JDE has port programs In popular castings for performance uses, If you would like a port designed for your project contact me 704-658-6951
Joel Dubose
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 3:36 pm

Re: AFR heads on 406 sbc, how much hp

Postby mdross1 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:35 pm

At work, all my paperwork is at home will dig through it tommorrow and let you know where I found the numbers and maybe you can help set me straight.
mdross1
Member
Member
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:14 am

Re: AFR heads on 406 sbc, how much hp

Postby maxracesoftware » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:00 pm

Fatman wrote:Larry, very impressive build you have there.

" Dart Pro 1's 23 deg Heads unwelded, no epoxy"

I didn't think you could support that kind of rpm with unwelded P/rod. Is the velocity too fast though prod pinch?
Are the dart pro1s the best 23 deg head to use for the kind of build that you have listed. thanks


you can make a little more HP out of the Dart 215cc or 230cc by welding + widening pushrod pinch

unwelded at 240cc , they are about maxed out in velocity at pushrod pinch on 440cid @ 8300 RPM

the Dart Pro-1 23deg has all the metal in correct places
and i end up with a 240cc Intake port starting from either 215cc or 230cc versions.

2.125/1.600 +.200 longer valves from how they come from Dart

here's Info on Brodix Track 1's i ground the Track 1's Intake Ports into
my best Dart Pro 1 240 cc shape,
tried to turn Track 1 heads into Dart Pro 1 shapes

Dyno results->
_________________________________________________________

440cid SBC Brodix Track-1 Heads make 801 HP

Peak TQ = 595.5 @ 6500 RPM
Peak HP = 800.7 @ 8000 RPM

600 RPM/SEC

Oct 24, 2010 Chris and Buddy Valentine 4.185x4.000= 440.2 cid
Brodix Track-1 Heads STS233 2.125/1.600 max ported by Meaux
Dart Pro-1 Intake Ports ground into Track-1's to create a 240 CC Port identical to Dart Pro-1
FelPro# 1206 Int gasket
Edelbrock Super Victor 2970 w/SuperSucker 2inch
Chris Headers 2-step 2, 2 1/8 w/4 inch Collector
ProSystems Carb
Diamond 12.8 cc Domes 15:1 CR C-16 Race Fuel
Cam Motion Roller
1.80/1.80 Jesels
Billet Fab alum full kickout w/Royal Purple 10/30 breakin
GZ MotorSports Vac Pump
---------------
.025 Lash
227 cranking psi @ 16-Volts at approx 275 Cranking RPM after 10 needle pulses
35 from 38
hookup Star Vac Pump
Q-16
37 from 35 btdc
Royal Purple XPR 10/40 oil


Image

Update : May 9, 2011 Dyno test Track 1 Intake Ports ground to Dart Pro-1 Port shapes @ 240 CC
tried something new out ... looks promising !
Peak TQ= 598.6 @ 6600 RPM
Peak HP= 807.4 @ 7900 RPM

Image
Meaux Racing Heads
MaxRace Software
PipeMax and ET_Analyst for DragRacers
http://www.maxracesoftware.com
http://www.maxracesoftwares.com/forum/index.php
PipeMax v3.98   http://www.maxracesoftwares.com/forum/v ... f=14&t=249
maxracesoftware
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 2301
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:04 pm
Location: Abbeville, LA

Re: AFR heads on 406 sbc, how much hp

Postby Joel Dubose » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:15 pm

Do you have any flow numbers throughout the lift. Nice piece by the way!!!!,
JDE Heads & Manifolds
I'm WD with AFR,Edelbrock and many other parts and castings suppliers.
JDE has port programs In popular castings for performance uses, If you would like a port designed for your project contact me 704-658-6951
Joel Dubose
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 3:36 pm

Re: AFR heads on 406 sbc, how much hp

Postby maxracesoftware » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:22 am

mdross1 wrote:Presently have a 406" dynoed 560hp.This motor has AFR 210 heads,Comp Cam roller 440 lobes 1.6 in 1.5 ex rockers, Victor Jr,750 dbl pmp Holley.Looking to get into the high 600 to 700 hp range.Was wondering if it is possible with AFR's big heads and 850cfm or bigger carb.
Been looking into SB2 topend,as you all know done right is big money.


mdross1 ,
with more Port work & parts, you can make more HP with most of what you have

i have a Racer on my Forum making
551 TQ @ 5900 RPM
685 HP @ 7300 RPM

with larger AFR 220 cnc'd Heads + larger 950 CFM Carb


SBC 406 with AFR 220 cnc heads

March 16/2011 406 4.155X3.75
AFR 220 heads mild port job, removed swirl vane
950 quick fuel carb with 2" wilson combo spacer
Holley strip dom 300-25
1 3/4 dyno pipes 3.0"collector 16" long
JE small dome 13.2:1
Comp solid roller 282/288 .710/.660
Jesel sportsman 1.6/1.5
Meaux Racing Heads
MaxRace Software
PipeMax and ET_Analyst for DragRacers
http://www.maxracesoftware.com
http://www.maxracesoftwares.com/forum/index.php
PipeMax v3.98   http://www.maxracesoftwares.com/forum/v ... f=14&t=249
maxracesoftware
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 2301
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:04 pm
Location: Abbeville, LA

Re: AFR heads on 406 sbc, how much hp

Postby maxracesoftware » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:30 am

Joel Dubose wrote:Do you have any flow numbers throughout the lift. Nice piece by the way!!!!,


Thanks !!!

i've got a good question for you :)
How much Flow CFM do you think those Dart Pro 1's w/ 2.125/1.600 valves
need to Flow to support a 440cid to make Peak HP at 8300 RPM
and run 8.410 ET @ 159+ mph @ 2450 lbs on motor ?


the AllPro 245 is also a great Head capable of this performance or better
also the old Pontiac/Brodix 23deg raised runner Heads
and possibly the newer AFR Heads ???
Meaux Racing Heads
MaxRace Software
PipeMax and ET_Analyst for DragRacers
http://www.maxracesoftware.com
http://www.maxracesoftwares.com/forum/index.php
PipeMax v3.98   http://www.maxracesoftwares.com/forum/v ... f=14&t=249
maxracesoftware
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 2301
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:04 pm
Location: Abbeville, LA

Re: AFR heads on 406 sbc, how much hp

Postby cspeier » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:08 am

maxracesoftware wrote:
Joel Dubose wrote:Do you have any flow numbers throughout the lift. Nice piece by the way!!!!,


Thanks !!!

i've got a good question for you :)
How much Flow CFM do you think those Dart Pro 1's w/ 2.125/1.600 valves
need to Flow to support a 440cid to make Peak HP at 8300 RPM
and run 8.410 ET @ 159+ mph @ 2450 lbs on motor ?



the AllPro 245 is also a great Head capable of this performance or better
also the old Pontiac/Brodix 23deg raised runner Heads
and possibly the newer AFR Heads ???



Can I guess??? :) I say 325 cfm on YOUR bench and 335+ cfm on everyone elses.. But, it needs the correct cam/manifold/compression/carb/oil system to get it done, which is a given.
cspeier
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 1680
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:31 pm
Location: Hays Kansas

Re: AFR heads on 406 sbc, how much hp

Postby 1989TransAm » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:45 am

"mdross1 ,
with more Port work & parts, you can make more HP with most of what you have"

The AFR 210 head is the same casting as the AFR220 head. So with some porting you can open your heads up. Larry can do it, Chad can do it as examples. While whoever does it have the intake manifold matched.
1989TransAm
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 3366
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:43 pm
Location: Cypress, California

Re: AFR heads on 406 sbc, how much hp

Postby mdross1 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:28 am

Hyperthetically speaking if you guys in the know and needed a 700+ hp small block Chev and wanted to stay as close to stock looking as possible,what would you use for parts?
Block
Heads
Crank
Rods
Pistons
Cam
Intake
Carb
wet sump,type of pump

Stock looking not a concern what would you use for heads?

Already have a good idea of where I'm going just want to hear from you guys in the business.
Mike Ross
mdross1
Member
Member
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:14 am

PreviousNext

Return to Engine Tech

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 1989TransAm, 70imp355, adam728, Dan Timberlake, emleydon, Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot], liljoe07, mmacd, nitro2, RevTheory, Rizzle, wrenchbender, Yahoo [Bot] and 31 guests