AFR heads on 406 sbc, how much hp

[Joel Dubose]

Do you have any flow numbers throughout the lift. Nice piece by the way!!!!,

Thanks !!!

i've got a good question for you
How much Flow CFM do you think those Dart Pro 1's w/ 2.125/1.600 valves
need to Flow to support a 440cid to make Peak HP at 8300 RPM
and run 8.410 ET @ 159+ mph @ 2450 lbs on motor ?


the AllPro 245 is also a great Head capable of this performance or better
also the old Pontiac/Brodix 23deg raised runner Heads
and possibly the newer AFR Heads ???

I would say , just use the math to figure peak power by airflow. This probably isn't far off on this engine. Another way would be your mph on a 2450 pound car. This should also be pretty close when you figure cfm to power

[A Atwood]

Hyperthetically speaking if you guys in the know and needed a 700+ hp small block Chev and wanted to stay as close to stock looking as possible,what would you use for parts?
Block
Heads
Crank
Rods
Pistons
Cam
Intake
Carb
wet sump,type of pump

Stock looking not a concern what would you use for heads?

Already have a good idea of where I'm going just want to hear from you guys in the business.
Mike Ross

My thoughts on your build:
440 ci
Block: Dart Little M (lightened if you are concerned about weight, as I wouldn't use an AL block).
Heads: Dart Pro 1 Plat 230 heads, fully ported, 2.125 Int, 1.6 Ex.
Crank: Callies 4" stroke
Rods: Callies 6"
Pistons: Wiseco forged 2618 flat top @ 11.5:1 CR 4.185" bore.
Cam: 268/276--.700/.650 on a 110 lsa. Use a Jones or Brookshire lobe.
Intake: Super Victor ported 2925.
Carb: The new AL HP 850 Holley, or give Patrick at Pro-Systems a call.
Pump and Pan(give Stephs a call and use what they tell you).

You could make more power with 18-15* heads, but you will need custom exhaust.

With this combination, you would be very close to 700 hp and still be streetable and run on 93 octane.

ARN

[Joel Dubose]

If your going to port the heads , why buy another set to port. Why not just use the AFR heads that you already have??? And again the better the head the more streetable it becomes. Best example is a Corvette engine. Smooth idle, good driveable compared to engine with the same power from the past. Reasons are better heads .

[user-9274568]

If your going to port the heads , why buy another set to port. Why not just use the AFR heads that you already have??? And again the better the head the more streetable it becomes. Best example is a Corvette engine. Smooth idle, good driveable compared to engine with the same power from the past. Reasons are better heads .

One reason would be there isn't enough material to do it right in that core, IMO.

[Joel Dubose]

If your going to port the heads , why buy another set to port. Why not just use the AFR heads that you already have??? And again the better the head the more streetable it becomes. Best example is a Corvette engine. Smooth idle, good driveable compared to engine with the same power from the past. Reasons are better heads .

One reason would be there isn't enough material to do it right in that core, IMO.

A good head porter should ne able to make it work with ether head. Not against Dart. Just don't see a need to re purchase what you already have. If a guy wanted to step up, I've got some 15* heads that would kick some serious numbers, that would be a real step up. The AFR 245 heads would be about as good as anything out there in a off the shelf piece.

[user-9274568]

If your going to port the heads , why buy another set to port. Why not just use the AFR heads that you already have??? And again the better the head the more streetable it becomes. Best example is a Corvette engine. Smooth idle, good driveable compared to engine with the same power from the past. Reasons are better heads .

One reason would be there isn't enough material to do it right in that core, IMO.

A good head porter should ne able to make it work with ether head. Not against Dart. Just don't see a need to re purchase what you already have. If a guy wanted to step up, I've got some 15* heads that would kick some serious numbers, that would be a real step up. The AFR 245 heads would be about as good as anything out there in a off the shelf piece.

How is a good head porter going to shape it correctly if it doesn't have the material to do so?? A good head porter knows a thick core is a must and the 210 AFR isn't that.

Perhaps the 245cc is as good as anything out there if your willing to buy a $1400 rocker system.

[rookie]

I have to agree with Joel, if you can’t get there with a ported AFR you’re not going to get there with a ported Dart head and I am not sure that A Atwood is correct on a 2.125 valve fitting on a Dart seat unless they have changed their heads, I do agree that a 2.125 or bigger valve is a plus if not a must at that power level.

[user-9274568]

So let me get this straight. You are saying a ported 210cc AFR can make 700hp on a 406.

A AFR ported and a Dart ported, both flowing the same air, both the same sized port, both with the same valve size. The Dart will make 20-25 more horsepower. GUARANTEED!

You can make 800 with a 2.08 valve..

[rookie]

So let me get this straight. You are saying a ported 210cc AFR can make 700hp on a 406.

A AFR ported and a Dart ported, both flowing the same air, both the same sized port, both with the same valve size. The Dart will make 20-25 more horsepower. GUARANTEED!

You can make 800 with a 2.08 valve..

No, I am saying, if you can’t get there with a ported AFR you not going to get there with a ported DART.
I am not sure a DART head seat as delivered will accept a 2.125 valve.
A 2.125 valve or larger will make 700 + horse power easier to achieve.
Sorry I was not clear on what I was saying.

[user-9274568]

So let me get this straight. You are saying a ported 210cc AFR can make 700hp on a 406.

A AFR ported and a Dart ported, both flowing the same air, both the same sized port, both with the same valve size. The Dart will make 20-25 more horsepower. GUARANTEED!

You can make 800 with a 2.08 valve..

No, I am saying, if you can’t get there with a ported AFR you not going to get there with a ported DART.
I am not sure a DART head seat as delivered will accept a 2.125 valve.
A 2.125 valve or larger will make 700 + horse power easier to achieve.
Sorry I was not clear on what I was saying.

If I remember correctly a Dart has a 2.160 diameter seat ring.

He will need a min of 235cc in the AFR lineup to make 700 with a 406, IMO..

[A Atwood]

I have to agree with Joel, if you can’t get there with a ported AFR you’re not going to get there with a ported Dart head and I am not sure that A Atwood is correct on a 2.125 valve fitting on a Dart seat unless they have changed their heads, I do agree that a 2.125 or bigger valve is a plus if not a must at that power level.

Yes a 2.125 valve will fit on the Dart intake seat. I believe they are 2.160 OD.

ARN

[rookie]

I was not sure, I have a set of Iron eagle platinum 230 with a 2.08 valve and it don’t look like you could get more than a 2.100 in it, may be an earlier head or different than the Pro 1’s
Is it not possible to port an AFR head to that CC, the AFR heads I have dealt with seam to have a very thick casting.

[A Atwood]

So let me get this straight. You are saying a ported 210cc AFR can make 700hp on a 406.

A AFR ported and a Dart ported, both flowing the same air, both the same sized port, both with the same valve size. The Dart will make 20-25 more horsepower. GUARANTEED!

You can make 800 with a 2.08 valve..

No, I am saying, if you can’t get there with a ported AFR you not going to get there with a ported DART.
I am not sure a DART head seat as delivered will accept a 2.125 valve.
A 2.125 valve or larger will make 700 + horse power easier to achieve.
Sorry I was not clear on what I was saying.

The correct head will be in the 240-245 cc range for a 23* head. The Dart casting is a porters head. Lots of material in all the right places. The AFR is not a porters head. If You try to port the AFR 210 head out to 245 cc, you will end up with egg shells or into water. The right AFR head is their 235 or 245 piece. So he would need new heads and new shaft rockers. With the Dart casting, he could even use his current rockers. Plus, when fully ported, the Darts make the most hp due to the finished shape.

ARN

[mdross1]

I want to put together a 427ci sbc.Want to use an aluminum block,reliable rotating assembly,and a set of heads/intake/carb, that will get the job done at the 700/800hp level.Leaning very hard on you guys for advice on what to use for parts,as soon as I feel comfortable with the combo the parts orders will go out.
Mike Ross

[Joel Dubose]

So let me get this straight. You are saying a ported 210cc AFR can make 700hp on a 406.

A AFR ported and a Dart ported, both flowing the same air, both the same sized port, both with the same valve size. The Dart will make 20-25 more horsepower. GUARANTEED!

You can make 800 with a 2.08 valve..

No, I am saying, if you can’t get there with a ported AFR you not going to get there with a ported DART.
I am not sure a DART head seat as delivered will accept a 2.125 valve.
A 2.125 valve or larger will make 700 + horse power easier to achieve.
Sorry I was not clear on what I was saying.

The correct head will be in the 240-245 cc range for a 23* head. The Dart casting is a porters head. Lots of material in all the right places. The AFR is not a porters head. If You try to port the AFR 210 head out to 245 cc, you will end up with egg shells or into water. The right AFR head is their 235 or 245 piece. So he would need new heads and new shaft rockers. With the Dart casting, he could even use his current rockers. Plus, when fully ported, the Darts make the most hp due to the finished shape.

ARN

I checked on the casting and you correct. The 245 casting is a different casting. I don't know if the cfm your looking for can be made in the smaller casting that you have. Good call on that Chad
I have accomplished 350 cfm in a dart cast iron head. I assumed it can happen in the AFR 210 Casting. Maybe it can , I'm just unfamiliar with the casting.