highest hp with a wedge head?

Ron E · Post by **Ron E** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:01 pm

shawn wrote:If i remember correctly the dodge boys ran around 193-194 mph with the wedge deal. That would put them in the 1200hp area. Of course whether that was n/a is another topic of discussion.
shawn

Very good point.

TSTOM · Post by **TSTOM** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:22 pm

Ron...The ProStock option head was basically a straight valve B1 15 deg valve angle that for lack of a better descripton would be like you sawed the head lengthwise and added about one inch to it's thickness the ports were raised accordingly and made more square than rectangle so a good bit of short turn height was gained I also remember the int rocker being moved over more so the push rod pich must have been wider I think it was a move in the right direction at the time but not enough ...it was soon replaced by the TS heads which is a canted valve(16x4int and 9x2 ex I think) arrangement but still retains the EIIEEIIE valve layout This is the head that Wayne County won championships with ...so if we are talking about a true wedge then this doesn't count in my eyes
The Brewer deal was pretty well sorted out ...sheetmetal manifold ,I believe at the time we were using G.Williams carbs,cam designed for the combination,etc. as I remember the int's went about 440 cfm@28and I think the ex were somewhat over 300(this was before I knew anything about 50+ seat angles also that is if I do now) an interesting thing about this head was that the int and ex were'nt on the same centerline in the X axis the ex was shifted (I think) away from the spark plug I guess it was to get a little more int dia This engine did have an aluminum block so I'm sure that hurt it some I think I still have the dyno file and flow numbers somewhere if your interested I remember it being over 1000 but I don't remember by how much I think it was a 604 also
Tom

TSTOM · Post by **TSTOM** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:26 pm

REread Ron's post......yes it would have been the +1/2 un advertised head and does fit 4.80 stock bore space and the Brewer engine was 4.5 bore but aluminum block

DavidNJ · Post by **DavidNJ** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:10 am

airflowdevelop wrote:Which head are you refering too david? the 10 degree stuff?

There is another thread here where the 10° heads put out nearly 1200hp. I believe they introducted canted valve Pro Lightenings since then.

http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopi ... torder=asc

shawn · Post by **shawn** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:30 pm

...it was soon replaced by the TS heads which is a canted valve(16x4int and 9x2 ex I think) arrangement but still retains the EIIEEIIE valve layout This is the head that Wayne County won championships with ...so if we are talking about a true wedge then this doesn't count in my eyes

I think it was the layout that threw me off on those. Thanks for the correction, and i agree, that's not a "wedge" head.

shawn

Darin Morgan · Post by **Darin Morgan** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:51 pm

The original Pro Stock truck engines where wedge heads at 12°. It was of course, an OEM 18 degree head with welded decks and rolled to 12° then moved towards intake face about .050 to get the valves in a bettor location in the bore. Those heads made 910HP and 552ft/lbs. When we switched to canted valve heads the engine made 585ft/lbs and 960HP after optimizing the combination. That's 50HP! Now with the valve train we have today I know the canted valve stuff could make 970-980 with the same TQ. I have seen wedge engines, usually smaller engines, that where switched to canted valve heads and they all picked up at least 30HP and some picked up 40HP.

Donnie1126 · Post by **Donnie1126** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:27 pm

A little off topic but,didn't Mopar have a canted valve engine(non Hemi) in the late 50's? Nothing really came of it performance wise I don't believe but it seems like they had developed a canted valve engine.

Keith Morganstein · Post by **Keith Morganstein** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:34 pm

One of my better customers has a Pontiac business. The Pontiac folks are fanatics and keep finding ways to design and produce new heads.

With the edelbrock heads cnc ported and flowing 370 cfm (that's all the metal there is) They are getting over 900 hp with 2 4bbl. on a 505 or 540ci engine. He has a single 4bbl making 860 with 505ci

With the wentzel super cheif heads and 2 4bbl kauffman made around 1050 hp from 540 ci.

Kauffman has a new high port head. I have a set in the shop and they look impressive. still a 14* valve angle. tall ports and small heart shaped chambers. Kauffman claims some big power with these.

All Pontiac is selling the tiger head. this head has big chief numbers.
John Kasse nearly won engine masters with a set, but broke in the finals.
This is a 12* head and with claims of ported tiger heads at 470cfm (no one talks velocity profile of course) They just might beat any previous engine with inline valves.

BTW, this is with the aftermarket IA II pontiac block.

Gary Blair · Post by **Gary Blair** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:56 pm

The Tiger headed 509 that was in EMC 05 had canted valves but inline. It is a very tall head with narrow ports. I think it will be back this year at 434 CI. It's going to be hard to beat.

bc · Post by bc » Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:34 am

Gary are you sure the Tiger heads on Kaase were canted? I have seen stock Tiger heads and they are not canted in stock form.

Gary Blair · Post by **Gary Blair** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:25 am

An article should be in one of the Primedia mags soon. It's a real nice engine.

J.C. · Post by **J.C.** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:51 am

a pontiac made 1075hp with two 4s on gasoline with the Wenzler SuperChief heads several years ago.

a single 4 version made in the 1050 range with the Wenzler heads and claimed the NSCA real street championship in 2004.

i am working on a setup with help from Larry Meaux and hope to approach the 1100hp mark with a traditional pontiac with a single 4 on gasoline.

i know that in engine masters Kaase's pontiac tiger head motor is of wedge design as it would be against the rules to cant the valves. The intakes are moved up toward the port opening alittle, but not canted.

seems unfair doesn't it that Kaase had to run against canted valve heads! hummnn, sounds like Kaase is out to prove he can kick some butt with a 30-40 hp disadvange in head design! he he.........

Gary Blair · Post by **Gary Blair** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:36 am

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/engine ... 1em_rules/

Changing valve angles is legal for Engine Masters. The smaller bore of the Pontiac may benefit from a canted valve.

J.C. · Post by **J.C.** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:40 pm

the Tiger head is a wedge design at 12*. the way i read the rules and since my personal friend is head tech at engine masters and he explained to me, as in the rules, the valves cannot be canted over +1 or -1 degrees from oem. so to cant the valves as much as a BBC,BBF would be illegal.......

since we are limited to a 4.40" bore with the current bore spacing, i agree that a canted valve for the traditional pontiac would be the next step for the pontiac crowd to get closer to the hp levels of the other brands.

toysejr · Post by **toysejr** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:08 pm

TSTOM wrote:an interesting thing about this head was that the int and ex were'nt on the same centerline in the X axis the ex was shifted (I think) away from the spark plug I guess it was to get a little more int dia o
Tom

That was a copied from an Old factory AMC Pro Stock head the Fred had bought is best that I remember. It was too bad that it did not work out for him.

-Toyse Woody

Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk

highest hp with a wedge head?

Tiger head

magazine

re wedge heads

rules

re valve angles