SpeedTalk Store - Opinion Columns

Rottler HP6A & Diamond honing in general

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

Re: Rottler HP6A & Diamond honing in general

Postby Wolfplace » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:04 am

Keith Morganstein wrote:
Wolfplace wrote:Hi all
Well after "due diligence" (I hope)
We are about to take the plunge & go with something new we have no experience with to speak of & I really hate change so,,,,,

To all of you that have the HP6A



Might want to talk with john beck (promachine)
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... hilit=HP6A


347guy wrote:There is a shop that bought a rottler and after 6 months of headaches he got a refund, this particular machine was for sale forever at a massive reduction at one of the largest well known used equipement guys that everyone knows. If I am spending 30k plus, it would most definately be with sunnen the proven leader.


Hi Keith
I have talked to John & he is was happy before the problems with stroking with his HP6A & is again happy after Rottler corrected the problem
He actually ended up with another machine, one of the newer ones I would assume
Rottler had some growing pains over the years & any honest rep that has been with them for a while will tell you this
They have made many upgrades to the point it has been suggested they rename it the HP7A to avoid confusion

I will say that everyone who has contacted me with one exception has been extremely pleased with the results they are getting with the machine & for the most part there have been only a few reported problems, not in finish quality but machine glitchs, & all were addressed by Rottler including John's

I also had a long talk with Total Seal regarding the machine & with regard to finish they are "extremely impressed"
They supplied finish requirements & Rottler set up a program that was exactly what they requested
To quote one of the guys
"if he were buying a machine today it would be the Rottler hands down"
Mike
Lewis Racing Engines
4axis CNC block machining


A few of the cars I have driven & owned
A tour of my shop
The Dyno
And a few pics of the gang

"Life is tough. Life is even tougher if you're stupid"
John Wayne
User avatar
Wolfplace
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 3276
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:39 pm
Location: Mendocino County, Northern CA

Re: Rottler HP6A & Diamond honing in general

Postby 347guy » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:18 am

If you feel satisfied with the machne do you feel satisfied with the company. My concern would be with the actual company, I would be worried they could fold up tomorrow in a volatile environment. I would again place my money on sunnen being around longer than rottler in terms of parts and service. I just didnt get that good feeling. Good luck with your purchase.
347guy
Pro
Pro
 
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:31 pm

Re: Rottler HP6A & Diamond honing in general

Postby Wolfplace » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:53 am

347guy wrote:If you feel satisfied with the machne do you feel satisfied with the company. My concern would be with the actual company, I would be worried they could fold up tomorrow in a volatile environment. I would again place my money on sunnen being around longer than rottler in terms of parts and service. I just didnt get that good feeling. Good luck with your purchase.


LOL,, you kind of answered that question in your last post
How many companies would even consider refunding your money because you were unhappy with a machine?

I am courious where this is coming from?
Are you saying you think Sunnen is in a more stable financial position than Rottler?
Have you seen what Sunnen has done with their automotive lines in the last few years?
There is no question that Sunnen has always been at the top of the heap when it comes to honing research but I don't think they are alone anymore at least when it comes to Diamond finishing
But I am all ears if someone can give me objective information to the contrary

BTW, was the machine you were referring to in a shop in Minnosota?
If so I know a little bit about it,, actually more than a little bit
You can PM or call me if you would rather

Thanks
Mike
Lewis Racing Engines
4axis CNC block machining


A few of the cars I have driven & owned
A tour of my shop
The Dyno
And a few pics of the gang

"Life is tough. Life is even tougher if you're stupid"
John Wayne
User avatar
Wolfplace
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 3276
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:39 pm
Location: Mendocino County, Northern CA

Re: Rottler HP6A & Diamond honing in general

Postby 347guy » Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:05 am

Parts for a sunnen machine and people that know how they work and what would need to be done with them should a problem arise will be around infinitely longer than anything rottler has manufactured or sold ever. Maybe I am being simplistic in my thoughts, but I firmly believe the odds are squarely stacked against a rottler owner versus a sunnen owner if shit hits the fan. To each his own, you are sold on a rottler which is of no big deal. The desperation to sell there hone to me was telling. No the hone was not in minnesota.

I have no doubt its a fine machine, but I dont have an extra 30-40k to gamble at this time, a sunnen hone is NOT a gamble.
347guy
Pro
Pro
 
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:31 pm

Re: Rottler HP6A & Diamond honing in general

Postby ProPower engines » Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:37 am

On an other note. The OE-M's for the most part have been using diamond technology for a real long time. I am curious if anyone knows who or what company designed and supplies them with abrasives and the like for replacement parts.

Seems this method of finishing has come to be an industry standard, and current ring manufactures are actively working with the manufactures of equipment and abrasive's. While Mike is totally correct about Sunnen's position with respect to automotive machining equipment so much as they are discontinuing alot of there machine manufacturing. They appear to be headed towards industrial/production oriented machines. They have been the leader in hole sizing for alot of years but I think Mike's right and there time is about up. As time goes on production speed is what everyone seems to demand and that trickles down to our world of engine building
Real Race Cars Don't Have Doors
ProPower engines
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 5280
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:16 pm
Location: VICTORIA BC CANADA

Re: Rottler HP6A & Diamond honing in general

Postby Wolfplace » Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:50 am

347guy wrote:Parts for a sunnen machine and people that know how they work and what would need to be done with them should a problem arise will be around infinitely longer than anything rottler has manufactured or sold ever. Maybe I am being simplistic in my thoughts, but I firmly believe the odds are squarely stacked against a rottler owner versus a sunnen owner if shit hits the fan. To each his own, you are sold on a rottler which is of no big deal. The desperation to sell there hone to me was telling. No the hone was not in minnesota.

I have no doubt its a fine machine, but I dont have an extra 30-40k to gamble at this time, a sunnen hone is NOT a gamble.


As I said above both machines are without question excellent & I have been a staunch Sunnen user for over 25 years but I do have an open mind
So again,,, if you can give me real objective information as to why the Sunnen machine is better I am all ears
This does not include what sounds like an ad for Sunnen

It is obvious you have not done much "due diligence" with regard to the two companies if that is your main objection
Rottler has been around for about 85 years now & you are the first person I have run into that feels they do not have reasonably good customer service & only second hand information regarding the quality of the machine

And just to be clear this is coming from someone who does not have one piece of Rottler equipment in the shop
When I went to the CNC I looked closley at what Rottler had & what RMC offered
I choose RMC

I posted this to get real firsthand experience about this machine & or the SV10 & so far no one has seen fit to post or privately contact me with anything negative except for one. (one private call not meaning you)

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts I do appreciate the input & trust me if my mind were competley made up I would not be here asking questions so anyone with the SV10 or information explaining why it is the better machine is lurking out there,,,
by all means join in,, it is a lot of money & I cannot afford to make a wrong choice either.
Mike
Lewis Racing Engines
4axis CNC block machining


A few of the cars I have driven & owned
A tour of my shop
The Dyno
And a few pics of the gang

"Life is tough. Life is even tougher if you're stupid"
John Wayne
User avatar
Wolfplace
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 3276
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:39 pm
Location: Mendocino County, Northern CA

Re: Rottler HP6A & Diamond honing in general

Postby promachine » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:04 am

Mike , comeon down and try out my machine , I think you will like it and I am able to turn out the best cyls. ever. This machine does seem to take longer to finish but when your done , your done , no heat and no touch up.
However , I have a CK 10 that I bought in 1983 still running in my old shop in So Ca and working fine.
h.p. peddler
promachine
Pro
Pro
 
Posts: 492
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:50 pm
Location: chico ca.

Re: Rottler HP6A & Diamond honing in general

Postby RW TECH » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:25 pm

A few years ago I did a benchmarking visit with a large-volume remanufacturer on belhaf of the OEM I worked for.

Said reman outfit was more than capable to kick out >200 gasoline engines a day and they have an exceptional track record & warranty for the type of work they do.

At that time they had quite a few Sunnen honing machines......With Rottler heads & diamond tooling plus water-based coolant retrofitted to the base Sunnen machine.

I did ask & they had some very strong feedback that basically said "We already had all these machines...The Rottler head & diamonds really made things better....."
RW TECH
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 2086
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:08 pm
Location: DETROIT, MI

Re: Rottler HP6A & Diamond honing in general

Postby ProPower engines » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:59 pm

RW
Were these the CV616 machines or the newer type sunnen hone.
I was looking at the conversion to diamond abrasives and thought with the availability of hone heads for every make of machine that simply converting to a different hone head and type of coolant used was going to be a more cost affective method of getting there without the need to purchase a complete machine.
Real Race Cars Don't Have Doors
ProPower engines
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 5280
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:16 pm
Location: VICTORIA BC CANADA

Re: Rottler HP6A & Diamond honing in general

Postby Wolfplace » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:48 am

promachine wrote:Mike , comeon down and try out my machine , I think you will like it and I am able to turn out the best cyls. ever. This machine does seem to take longer to finish but when your done , your done , no heat and no touch up.
However , I have a CK 10 that I bought in 1983 still running in my old shop in So Ca and working fine.


Thank you for the offer John, I appreciate it but I am so far behind around here & have trouble getting to the end of my driveway :)

I will try to give you a call tomorrow if that's ok, got a couple of questions about your stones of choice
Mike
Lewis Racing Engines
4axis CNC block machining


A few of the cars I have driven & owned
A tour of my shop
The Dyno
And a few pics of the gang

"Life is tough. Life is even tougher if you're stupid"
John Wayne
User avatar
Wolfplace
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 3276
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:39 pm
Location: Mendocino County, Northern CA

Previous

Return to Engine Tech

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 383ssmonty, 47 JOE, Bing [Bot], cr480r, FuelieNova, gui961, ParDeus, Racing55, vintageracer, wyrmrider and 40 guests