Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk

BEARCAT wrote:

farmer wrote:Just finished dyno runs thought I'd share the results. The engine is a basic Shafiroff 434 bracket race engine built in 2007 and raced for the first time in 2010.
The engine came with off the shelf 11x Brodix heads and had 185 runs we base lined the engine on the dyno just like we ran it 565 ft-torq @6000
677 hp @ 6800 the numbers from Safiroff's dyno where 684 hp @ 6800. We changed the heads to out of the box afr 235 heads on the dyno and re tested
597 ft-torq @ 6000 735 hp @ 6800. The goal of changing heads is to run 7.90's in a 1750 lb altered , the old combination ran 8.15. Do you think i'll make it ?

58 hp for changing from a non ported head to a full ported head? Thats impressive not. I've seen on here where Big Joe make that type of power from a 355 engine with AFR 195 heads on pump gas. I've also seen full ported 11 x heads make 750 hp. The AFR heads do have a good vaule but it seems on here that you only push what you can sell. If you cant make a dollar on them then they are junk. lol

You might want to go back and re-read ALL the posts again.

58 hp for changing from a non ported head to a full ported head? Thats impressive not. I've seen on here where Big Joe make that type of power from a 355 engine with AFR 195 heads on pump gas. I've also seen full ported 11 x heads make 750 hp. The AFR heads do have a good vaule but it seems on here that you only push what you can sell. If you cant make a dollar on them then they are junk. lol

I don't sell anything, just trying to share my head change. Seems like a tough crowd !!

New engine builder, even you can't be stupid enough to believe an out of the box, unported, 25 year old design head is a fair test against AFR's newest, best head.
Hell, 25 years ago, AFR (Brownsfield back then) was about as good as Patriots.
I wonder just how many "plants" AFR has on this site. They must be struggling to have to stoop that low tell sell heads.TB

People see 735hp and think it's an Earth mover. It's 434 cubic inches. That's 1.69 cubic inch to hp.

Not taking anything away from it, nice job.

Tony B wrote:New engine builder, even you can't be stupid enough to believe an out of the box, unported, 25 year old design head is a fair test against AFR's newest, best head.
Hell, 25 years ago, AFR (Brownsfield back then) was about as good as Patriots.
I wonder just how many "plants" AFR has on this site. They must be struggling to have to stoop that low tell sell heads.TB

I don't see what all the fuss or vitriol is about. The OP put a better set of heads on and shared his results...

"I don't see what all the fuss or vitriol is about. The OP put a better set of heads on and shared his results"

I have to agree with Keith and Chad. To many people reading things into the thread and jumping to conclusions.

Tony B wrote:New engine builder, even you can't be stupid enough to believe an out of the box, unported, 25 year old design head is a fair test against AFR's newest, best head.
Hell, 25 years ago, AFR (Brownsfield back then) was about as good as Patriots.
I wonder just how many "plants" AFR has on this site. They must be struggling to have to stoop that low tell sell heads.TB

I seen a dyno test in a magazine of a AFR 227 cc head vrs a AFR 235 cc . I guess it was not fair either. The 235 had a bigger port and valve.
They should only compare apples to apples. Yeah right.

BTW I own some newer and older Brodix heads and some old syle AFR 220 heads.
I like seeing these tests.
My hobby is changing parts on motors and getting my ass kicked bracket racing.
Get it?
Why don’t you post your dyno results showing Brodix’s better heads?

The point I was making was, compairing a non ported, out dated, head from one company, against the very BEST item from another company, was absolutely ludicrous. TB

Tony B wrote:The point I was making was, compairing a non ported, out dated, head from one company, against the very BEST item from another company, was absolutely ludicrous. TB

Listen you asshole I had goal and $ 2000 to get there I think it worked rather well theres nothing ludicrous about that

had a friend that built a 418 dirt track engine around 1995 with brodix heads ,,, i think it pulled 710 hp ,,, thats 16 years ago ,,, i'm pretty sure they were 11x heads ,,,,

if i was AFR ,, i wouldn't breath too easy with the 235's ,,, Speir has cast iron 235 RHS heads breathing down their neck if you compare them on Stan Weiss's site

lets see them compared to some ALLPRO heads ,23 degree

Farmer

Here is some back ground to help you. A lot of guys on this forum are head porters, they make their living doing it. Afr is a very good cylinder head manufacture but posses somewhat of a threat to most head porters especially the ones that primarily do 23degree heads. Like it or not AFR has a good head that is hard to beat price wise when you compare that to having a set of heads hand ported. However in the hands of a good head porter their heads should out perform those of AFR. This is mostly do to the fact that most head porters match their heads to what the customer needs as opposed to AFR that makes a head that has to reach a broad range of use. (This is why AFR has so many volume size heads for SBC)

Another thing that probably bothers people about your post is that you have very little posting history. Some people have used this forum and others as a place to advertise their products. They post flow numbers and horsepower numbers to boost their sales. The problem with this is that some people beleive whatever they read on the internet and magazines even if it could be completely false or even disproved on the same forum. Some lies can be flow numbers, horsepower, ets, and even made up problems with a product. Just because someone says on the internet that a head flowed what it did or made the power it did does not make it true.

This does not mean I think you are lying. I believe you that you motor made more power from AFR 235s then unported Brodix 11x but the problem is that some people reading the forum make the gigantic leap that all AFR is better than Brodix. So they buy AFR instead of Brodix from reading this thread.

Keep posting I do think it was informative, although I would rather have seen you do a head comparison between the Brodix Trac 1 233cc cnc head vs. the AFR 235cc cnc head and said you are not a dealer for either one. To me that is what I would want to know.

Here is were you went wrong.

brodix 11x vs. afr235 dyno test

You drew first blood.

x2! good post Eric. speedtalkers are some of the most sensitive guys i know

Tony B wrote:New engine builder, even you can't be stupid enough to believe an out of the box, unported, 25 year old design head is a fair test against AFR's newest, best head.
Hell, 25 years ago, AFR (Brownsfield back then) was about as good as Patriots.
I wonder just how many "plants" AFR has on this site. They must be struggling to have to stoop that low tell sell heads.TB

Tony B., don't get all up set.It's just a test.
I can't be that stupid,after all I'm the one who is working for AFR.
Rick Sperling, I did'nt get my bonus check last week.

All I can add is I just recently flowed a AFR 235cc. Yes, it does flow a ton of air. If your after a flow number, you'll be happy. The meat and potato's is what seperates cylinder heads...