Billet Carb Circuits Tune-up

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

How Holley has managed not to have any major competitors come along is both (in part) explainable and surprising.

Not surprising at all, the carb product doesn't fall into either of the must catagories for a succesful business.

Must be a little valuable to millions or ordinary people. (Mobile phones, Walmart, Spectator Sports)

Must be extremely valuable to enough extremely wealthy people. (Ferrari, DeBeers, Real Estate)

[Troy Patterson]

In my limited experience, I'd say without a doubt, overwhelmingly there is a lot of "bucks" in the carburetor business. I have had many many big money people for customers over the years, but only a tiny percentage of what's out there in the sport / racing industry. The issue is getting exposure and credibility across the board. I was in 2000 - 2001 and the money flowed very freely. I was well ahead of the curve selling $1,800.00 carburetors (out performing everyone else's I came into contact with), played myself on a TV show, while Holley was selling their version for $700.00 and I had already talked to the Chief of Engineering @ Holley regarding partnering to manufacture or buying my developments - until or then I became a target for those criminal types I mentioned earlier

True, the economy is in a much different place right now, but in my area homes sales of $2 million and up is booming, so I am told.

Troy Patterson tmpcarbs.blogspot TMP Carbs TMPCarbs.net

[Troy Patterson]

How Holley has managed not to have any major competitors come along is both (in part) explainable and surprising.

Not surprising at all, the carb product doesn't fall into either of the must catagories for a succesful business.

Must be a little valuable to millions or ordinary people. (Mobile phones, Walmart, Spectator Sports)

Must be extremely valuable to enough extremely wealthy people. (Ferrari, DeBeers, Real Estate)

I take it you aren't in the carb business?

Troy Patterson tmpcarbs.blogspot TMP Carbs TMPCarbs.net

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

I take it you aren't in the carb business?

My serious income comes from software, the time I spend on engine stuff and inventions is just for entertainment and pleasure of something to share with friends and kids.

On the list of good ways to make money making racing parts is one step below trying to be a rock star as at least some people do become rich as rock stars.

Are there even any automotive performance aftermarket companies that are on any stock exchange?
That's a good gage of their value as business worth investing in for anything but fun.

[Troy Patterson]

I take it you aren't in the carb business?

My serious income comes from software, the time I spend on engine stuff and inventions is just for entertainment and pleasure of something to share with friends and kids.

On the list of good ways to make money making racing parts is one step below trying to be a rock star as at least some people do become rich as rock stars.

Are there even any automotive performance aftermarket companies that are on any stock exchange?
That's a good gage of their value as business worth investing in for anything but fun.

Edelbrock, Holley is or was owned by Colt Industries. Can't say Holley has ever been operated by anyone with serious brains - seriously. The thing about manufacturing as you may know, is that it easily expands into other areas including if desired, defense $ contracts, O.E.M. and for myself, it's an opportunity to pay for a whole lotta additional research and development.

My plan WAS going to go public by the mid 2000's, but not on carbs alone. Stocks, what an invention and an relatively easy way for a company to get it's hands on millions of dollars to further grow the business.

Troy Patterson tmpcarbs.blogspot TMP Carbs TMPCarbs.net

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

The thing about manufacturing as you may know, is that it easily expands into other areas including if desired, defense $ contracts, O.E.M. and for myself, it's an opportunity to pay for a whole lotta additional research and development.

Not easily, I know a few people with defense contracts making stuff like drone engines etc. it looks like a gold mine until you find out what they have to pay for a staff of lawyers and accountants and contributions.

I make a few non-automotive invention prototypes a year for people and help them get ideas off the ground, as soon as they have any idea that they can sell the product, the smart thing to do is to offshore manufacturing. Like it or not that is the only way to make it these days. I modeled a TIG welding helmet for a company recently, I would have done the mold design too but you couldn't buy the materials in the US for what he had it produced in China for.

[Troy Patterson]

I make a few non-automotive invention prototypes a year for people and help them get ideas off the ground, as soon as they have any idea that they can sell the product, the smart thing to do is to offshore manufacturing. Like it or not that is the only way to make it these days. I modeled a TIG welding helmet for a company recently, I would have done the mold design too but you couldn't buy the materials in the US for what he had it produced in China for.

Ya, that's a real shame about manufacturing in the US. Sad, but true. I'd think CNC work might be more cost effective to do in the US?

Troy Patterson tmpcarbs.blogspot TMP Carbs TMPCarbs.net

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

I'd think CNC work might be more cost effective to do in the US?

Nope not even close, the most advanced mold shops in the world today in terms of equipment, processes, training are in China. There is nothing in the USA even close to Foxconn.

http://www.foxconn.com/NWInG/about/moldmaking.asp

That's why iphones are made there, the go from product design to packaged and shipped phones in days, not weeks.

[Doug Schriefer]

Jon,
Looks really nice (as all of your projects do), I do see a few things that you’d probably want to look at:
- What market are you looking at selling to? If you’re looking at going after the standard 4150® market, you’ll need to develop some sort of drop base air cleaner that will clear that top (shouldn’t be too much of an issue for you)

- What bolt pattern are do you want to use? There are many advantages to running bolt patterns other than the “Industry Standard”.

- You can make tooling to “Punch” the transfer slots in without too much trouble.

- The ability to change Venturi & Throttle bore sizes is something you’ll want to look at (even if it’s just a matter of machining different sizes)

- Since you’re starting from a clean sheet of I’d look at the Venturi/Throttle bore centerlines you’re working off of. Rather than just go off of a standard Holley® sizes you can optimize this.

There are lots of other things that you’d want to look at, but honestly I’d say you need to determine what marketplace you’re trying to go after with this (I’m assuming street/strip from the link to the Cobra Kit car, and the mention of Looks) Once you’ve got that down, then you can see what that market can withstand price wise to back in to determining if you can profitably manufacture this carb. Too many manufactures in our industry today. Guys come up with an idea (good or bad) decide on what the price should be manufacture them and start selling only to find out that with every carburetor (or other part) they might as well be throwing a few hundred dollar bills in the box because they’re losing money on every sale.



Troy,
FWIW Colt hasn’t owned Holley® for a decade or so. They’ve been owned by venture capitalist investment groups for a long long time. The problem with that is our industry is based on people doing what they do for the love of it, not necessarily because it’s the “Best” investment. These groups do not understand that which is not good for any of us.

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

Doug, If I make any of those carbs it would likely be that I would make one run of a hundred and that would be the end of it. Just something interesting do to.

[bigfoot584]

what about running the fuel passage in the rear bowl
farther back and run two locations for jets, run the rear
location for drag racing and front location for street
or road racing, screw blank jets into the other two
locations.

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

what about running the fuel passage in the rear bowl

For a conventionally located carb I think that would be a good idea.

This is a Dominator sized carb intended to be run sideways that's part of the reason for two floats per end.

[Troy Patterson]

Troy,
FWIW Colt hasn’t owned Holley® for a decade or so. They’ve been owned by venture capitalist investment groups for a long long time. The problem with that is our industry is based on people doing what they do for the love of it, not necessarily because it’s the “Best” investment. These groups do not understand that which is not good for any of us.

Interesting. Was it still Colt who owned Holley when Holley was buying up all those performance manufacturers I wonder?

There you have it, venture capital in the carburetor business.

Troy Patterson tmpcarbs.blogspot TMP Carbs TMPCarbs.net

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

There you have it, venture capital in the carburetor business.

Two BKs in the last few years, and no VC picked them up.

The fact that Comp didn't pick up Crane just for brand vlue says a lot about the future of the performance aftermarket industry, smart money ignores it.

[Doug Schriefer]

Interesting. Was it still Colt who owned Holley when Holley was buying up all those performance manufacturers I wonder?

There you have it, venture capital in the carburetor business.

Troy Patterson

Nope it had already was the group...