SpeedTalk Store - Opinion Columns

The best way to make 450 + Hp in a 351C

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

The best way to make 450 + Hp in a 351C

Postby ford mad 44 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:37 pm

I would like to build a 450 + HP 351 cleveland motor for my xb coupe it is a road car
love my fords
ford mad 44
New Member
New Member
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:49 am

Re: The best way to make 450 + Hp in a 351C

Postby bbmachine » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:41 am

Stroke it to 4.00" and use CHI 3V 208 heads.
bbmachine
Member
Member
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:12 am

Re: The best way to make 450 + Hp in a 351C

Postby cjperformance » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:44 am

Stock engine with 200hp of n2o :D

now seriously, depends on the type of manners you want from it. If you want impeccable manners then 393ci with some small port alloy heads and a hydro roller will do it with ease and reliability.

If you want it grumpy, keep the iron heads, keep the stock 351crank, port work and a good solid f/t or roller cam and the usual treatment will do it also.

What are your requirements for this engine? As in what do you expect it to sound like, perform like, and the main thing is what budget are you looking at?
Craig.
cjperformance
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 1481
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:20 am
Location: South Australia

Re: The best way to make 450 + Hp in a 351C

Postby plovett » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:17 am

Here's a simple one with unported heads I copied from another website:

D2AE-CA 4 bolt block
Stock rods - shot peened, magged, ARP
Stock crank .010/.010
Clevite bearings
Crane 246/256 .570/.590 solid cam
TRW forged pistons .040 ,10.5:1
Stock unported 4V heads, severe duty valves, 61-64cc closed chambers.
Torker intake, 2" 4 hole HVH spacer
750HP Holley, 84/84 jets both pv's plugged.
Mallory comp 9000 distributor, 18 initial 39 in by 3000
MSD 6AL ignition and coil
Weiand alum. water pump
16" electric fan
Moroso electric water pump drive kit.
C4, 4500 stall 8" Dynamic convertor
4.11 gear
28x10 Hoosier drag slicks
1970 mustang 3065lbs about 3235lbs race weight.

Best ET - (1/8 mile) 7.44 @ 91MPH, 1.58 60'
(1/4 mile) 11.78@113MPH


Here's the website:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/

I would suggest asking there and/or looking at the Engine Builds section of the site. Hope that helps.

paulie
plovett
Pro
Pro
 
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:49 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: The best way to make 450 + Hp in a 351C

Postby Mpcoluv » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:59 am

I would spend the money on a stroker kit and gain cubes before I would buy aluminum heads.
A 408C with a dual plane intake like the Blue Thunder or RPM Air Gap (I know it's a 2V intake but it still works pretty good on a 4V), 10:1 compression and something like an old crane F238 or F246 cam will do just fine.
Mpcoluv
Pro
Pro
 
Posts: 428
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:45 pm

Re: The best way to make 450 + Hp in a 351C

Postby CamKing » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:50 am

For a 450hp street car, your best bet is to stroke it.
That way you can keep the RPM down, not have to run a higher stall speed, keep a nice smooth idle, and have plenty of vacuum.

If you go to a 3.75" stroke, you'll only need to turn 6,000rpm.
If you go to a 4.00" stroke, you will only need to turn 5,600rpm.
In both, you can run a hydraulic flat tappet in the 230-235@.050" range
I believe the heads can make 450hp with not a lot of porting.
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
(704)489-2449
User avatar
CamKing
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 7358
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:05 pm
Location: Denver, NC

Re: The best way to make 450 + Hp in a 351C

Postby job1bf » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:40 am

cjperformance wrote:Stock engine with 200hp of n2o :D



I remember Kaase saying to build a 400+ HP Cleveland you "use good parts and then starting pulling plug wires 'till you get there"... :lol:
job1bf
New Member
New Member
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:39 am
Location: memphis,tn

Re: The best way to make 450 + Hp in a 351C

Postby Troy Patterson » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:51 pm

job1bf wrote:
cjperformance wrote:Stock engine with 200hp of n2o :D



I remember Kaase saying to build a 400+ HP Cleveland you "use good parts and then starting pulling plug wires 'till you get there"... :lol:


X2 - Seriously.

Years ago I set about to build a 450 horsepower 4 V. Cleveland and ended up at around 550 horsepower #-o Wider LCA's are better for the large valves and ports, don't get crazy on the header primary diameter, 1 3/4" is all the bigger you want to go. Don't be afraid of compression 11:1 (radiusing all sharp edges in the combustion space), don't both with little intake port heads. If you use port stufers, according to MPG who makes a nice version, the exhaust side is the majority of the gain and well worth running. Run a cam in the 230s - 240s @ .050" on a 112 - 114 LCA, even a flat tappet hydraulic and you'll have all the power you expect and more. Don't under-carb it with something like a 750 or 950 and be sure you've got a good fuel curve.

Troy Patterson TMPCarbs.com TMP Carbs
Troy Patterson
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 3429
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:18 pm
Location: California

Re: The best way to make 450 + Hp in a 351C

Postby cjperformance » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:20 pm

The OP may not have 4V Clevo heads, but our Aussie 2V Closed Chamber heads are up to the task with some port work too,
you dont need to spend wild money on a Clevo to get this hp level, 4V heads or not.
Of course, a few more cubes just makes it even easier and smoother.!
Craig.
cjperformance
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 1481
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:20 am
Location: South Australia

Re: The best way to make 450 + Hp in a 351C

Postby CamKing » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:36 pm

For a 450hp street engine, I would run the 2V heads. It shouldn't take much porting to get them to flow 260+cfm @ .500".
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
(704)489-2449
User avatar
CamKing
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 7358
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:05 pm
Location: Denver, NC

Re: The best way to make 450 + Hp in a 351C

Postby cjperformance » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:31 pm

CamKing wrote:For a 450hp street engine, I would run the 2V heads. It shouldn't take much porting to get them to flow 260+cfm @ .500".


X2
Craig.
cjperformance
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 1481
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:20 am
Location: South Australia

Re: The best way to make 450 + Hp in a 351C

Postby Troy Patterson » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:18 pm

ford mad, what heads do you have??

Troy Patterson TMPCarb.net TMP Carbs
Troy Patterson
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 3429
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:18 pm
Location: California

Re: The best way to make 450 + Hp in a 351C

Postby russxr67 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:31 pm

I wouldn't waste a dime on any antiquaited iron cylinder head these days. I know they can both make the numbers required by the OP but it doesn't make any sense to pour money into a set of 30-40 year old heads considering what is available .

If this guy is on a budget then a standard stroke 351 will suffice. A stroker would be nice and the corresponding torque increase is a plus of course but at this power level may be unwarranted.

Better cylinder heads are where it's at . A set of CHI 2v's, fresh rebuilt bottom end,RPM Airgap, 750 dp,ICE ignition and a hydraulic cam with around 235@50 with .550 or so lift. Basic combo that will produce the goods.
russxr67
Member
Member
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:13 am
Location: PERTH. WEST AUST

Re: The best way to make 450 + Hp in a 351C

Postby maxc » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:42 pm

Here is my 351C. 1100rpm's timing locked at 30. 650 Demon.
Needs to be broken in. Speed pro forged dome pistons .030 11.7 to 1
Stock unported 4V heads, severe duty valves, Harlandsharp rockers. Cam 240@.050 .540.
Gear drive.
Mark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOmw6AHKaqA
maxc
Member
Member
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:57 pm
Location: SE Michigan

Re: The best way to make 450 + Hp in a 351C

Postby Troy Patterson » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:04 pm

maxc wrote:Here is my 351C. 1100rpm's timing locked at 30. 650 Demon.
Needs to be broken in. Speed pro forged dome pistons .030 11.7 to 1
Stock unported 4V heads, severe duty valves, Harlandsharp rockers. Cam 240@.050 .540.
Gear drive.
Mark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOmw6AHKaqA


I think you have too much initial and not enough total timing with the distributor locked as it is. Shooting yourself in the foot with the small carburetor. Excellent on the compression, running pump gas or race gas? It could be done on pump if you've prepared the engine for it and have a good fuel curve.

A friend / customer a few years back who ran a 3200 '66 Fairlane with a 351 4 V. Cleveland, a Ford Motorsports solid flat tappet on a 106 or 108 LCA, top loader @ 5.13's. Ran a best of 11.61 @ 121. Unported, just minimal valve pocket clean up on 4 V. Cleveland cylinder heads.

Granted, with that LCA the thing lived up to expectation and was a dog under 5500 RPM - even with all the help in the world from the step gears. He added a MSD 6AL box and intake and exhaust port plates. The engine would start pulling 1000 rpm sooner.

Me, I ported the heck out of a set of 4 V. Cleveland heads, added just a little epoxy, ran a ported and modified single plane and a modified 750 dp, oh and 3:1 rear end gears. A sleepy hydraulic cam in the 230's / 240's @ .050" on a 112 LCA, rhoades lifters. The motor pulled from 3600 to 7000 rpm (the lifter imposed redline) and showed no signs of wanting to quit. Later, added a 1025 cfm carb and eventually a single top tunnel ram. Wow.

Troy Patterson TMPCarbs.net TMP Carbs
Troy Patterson
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 3429
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:18 pm
Location: California

Next

Return to Engine Tech

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Dragsinger, Yahoo [Bot] and 16 guests