Best OEM blocks???

[dfree383]

For the current 5.0 4v ford motor...... on tests I've seen they appear to be faster than its Goverment Motors counter part, so whats your point?

The Fact is Ford Engineers do change, the tend to follow technology and alot of time lead it. Face the facts times are changing and the big inch 2 valve pushrod V8 has been dying for a long time, granted its lingering but it will be a novilty like a flat head some day. If you'd stop and look for a monment at what the ford engineers have designed and are doing with that motor you may be supprised.

So what is the current gm counterpart for the 5.0? I thought it was going into the mustang? Last I checked, the 4.6/5.4 mod engines were really big, weighed a lot, didn't have a lot of cubes, and didn't make much power for the size of the engine.... and don't like spark plugs.

You're obviously a ford guy, and I'll try to keep it civil, but the ford mod engines have nothing over the ls series engine. Except more cams....

And as for the big block having a couple issues with interchangeability, a 50 year production run will do that. If ford could make an engine good enough to span that amount of years ( ) they'd have the same nuisance.

Last time I checked the 460 Lasted for 40 years and the Small Block ford did about 35 with as good or better interchangability.

The 5.0 4V is in the 2011 mustang and the tests I've seen its at least 2 /10 quicker than the GM counterpart, Camaro Right??? Again alot of people are affraid of technology and its showing in this thread.

[Paul Kane]

What's the best OEM block to start with for making a healthy N/A street engine?

We were talking about building a big block with fairly modest pieces. Heads that take standard kind of valve gear (keeping rockers in the $500-700 range), OE block, probably OE crank or budget aftermarket piece, economy grade rods (Scat/Eagle?), moderate weight pistons without 'trick of the week' ring packs or off the wall custom machining, hot street or endurance racing type of solid roller cam. CR as high as pump gas would allow. Basically, a hot street piece that would be able to run every other week at the strip and hopefully get a couple years on valvesprings and maybe a bit longer between teardowns.

-Bill

Bill,

Of course my vote is for the Ford 460 block, heads, crankshaft, etc. For a 650 pump gas street/strip build, I think a good build might be something like a 501-inch engine. Using the OEM crankshaft (offset stroked), OEM 2-bolt block, and even ported OEM early-style heads if you want, you can add the other parts you suggested (aftermaket rods, pistons, camshaft, etc) and build a very reliable, long lasting, street-friendly, pump gas friendly 650 hp engine for pretty cheap. And the OEM block, heads, and crankshaft are all capable of easily supporting a lot more horsepower more than you are asking of them. 460s are everywhere for cheap, and you can design a combo based around OEM block/heads/crank that will make outstanding all-around power, a broad power range (which is important for streetability) that also pulls hard on top (but not only peak hp numbers), and you can upgrade later if you want aluminum heads, etc. The 501 will have an excellent 1.64 rod ratio which will help cylinder longevity. If you want more power, step up to the 4.30" stroke crankshaft with the 6.8 rod. At BDC, the 4.300 stroke/6.800 combo puts the wrist pin only 0.030" below the OEM 460 at BDC. The 10.300" 460 blocks are very well suited for stroking, accommodate a proper rod length relative to the stroke, and also a short pin height for a lightweight piston.

Maybe I should have just answered your original post in the first place,

Paul

So what you are telling the OP is that in YOUR experience of pushing both blocks to their breaking point YOU feel the BBF is the stronger block? Or is that just a bs sales pitch for your business......

tt383,

No, I am not suggesting the 385 Series based on the capabilties of the blocks when to the limit; I am suggesting the 385 Series based on the criteria that Bill oulined. I don't see anywhere in my post (that you quoted) where I said otherwise.

And no, it is not a sales pitch for High Flow Dynamics. I never offered to sell a single part to Bill, I simply offered my input.

Yes, I have build SBCs, BBCs, SBM,s BBM,s and 385s.

Paul

[Paul Kane]

F1Fever, I stated that I would no longer reply to your posts, but you seem to be constanty re-iterating the same thing over and over....as though you are walking the room trying to pick a fight. Specifically, you keep posting the following pics...

[img]http.jpg[/img][img]http:.jpg[/img]

I also know which one LOOKS to have a much stronger, beefier, better built bottom end..

it doesn't take a genius to see which is stronger... one i could break into pieces with a roofing hatchet, the other would only be nicked up....

...and you keep referring to how things "look." No, "it doesn't take a genious to see which is stronger," but it does take knowledge and research....neither of which you apparently have. If you knew more, you'd realize that the blocks in question actually display oversight in the GM design. For one the overkill/unecessary amount of material. For example would you use a 1500g connecting rod in your rotating assembly in order to prevent rod breakage? My point is that there is too much material in the wrong place (pan rail). Remember that the BBF powered Mustang did essentially the same thing as your BBC example but with fewer (if any) block upgrades? Also, contrary to popular belief the swept area of the engine bearings is greater in the BBC than it is in the BBF (not the other way around as many think based on how they "look"), and what about block material? Have you ever checked the molecular structure of the iron used to create the BBF and BBC blocks? I have, under a scanning electron microscope. So when you post those two images in your defense, I just laugh.

But I also get a litle pissed off, because the pictures that you are linking come from our website. Please not the following at the bottom of every page of our websites:

This Website and All Encompassing Pages, Pictures and Text:
© Copyright 2005-2010, Paul Kane. No copying, linking, printing or otherwise without express written permission.

Your signature line states the following...

websites, send me a PM or call (918) 314-0819 ..
example sites with SEO and full admin control:
http://www.drnaftali.com/ and http://www.wyckoffeyes.com/

...and so I would think that as a website specialist you know better than to use our property without permission. Take the pictures from our website down immediately, you do not have our permission to use them.

Thank you,

Paul Kane

[F1Fever]

No, "it doesn't take a genious to see which is stronger," but it does take knowledge and research....neither of which you apparently have.

1st off it's genius, not genious... If you are going to degrade my intelligence at least get it right in the spelling department.... 2nd I hope that anybody that reads this thread is seeing how you are acting, if you were truly after the advancement of knowledge (instead of self promotion) you would not mind sharing those pictures from your site with this board. Since you apparently do have a problem with those pictures being posted here one must wonder why? I'm done...

there is a reason that you will find 100 to 1 BBC's to BBF's. If you can't figure it out and don't understand why, well, then it is not worth explaining.

[Paul Kane]

1st off it's genius, not genious... If you are going to degrade my intelligence at least get it right in the spelling department...

Thanks, I know how to spell. That oversight isn't from a lack of ability to spell, it is simply not proof reading what I type.

2nd I hope that anybody that reads this thread is seeing how you are acting, if you were truly after the advancement of knowledge (instead of self promotion) you would not mind sharing those pictures from your site with this board. Since you apparently do have a problem with those pictures being posted here one must wonder why?

I'll tell you why: the primary reason is specifically because our monthly website bandwith usage (or data transfer allocation, or whatever they call it) goes through the roof and we are charged dearly for all the deep-linked images that end up on forums where only a handful of interested people care to look at them and the other 98% could care less even though the images are sent to their home computer screens as well. And so if someone wants to look at the pictures, they are readily available on our website for anyone to see who may be truly interested in viewing them.

F1Fever I must say, your presumptuousness (did I spell it right? ) in most every matter expressed by you within this thread goes farther than any keyboard warrior I have personally encountered for quite some time.

Sorry to learn of your insecurities, and good luck,

Paul

[F1Fever]

Since you apparently do have a problem with those pictures being posted here one must wonder why?

I'll tell you why: the primary reason is specifically because our monthly website bandwith usage (or data transfer allocation, or whatever they call it) goes through the roof and we are charged dearly for all the deep-linked images that end up on forums where only a handful of interested people care to look at them and the other 98% could care less even though the images are sent to their home computer screens as well. And so if someone wants to look at the pictures, they are readily available on our website for anyone to see who may be truly interested in viewing them.


Paul

so then if i were to host them it would not be a problem?

[tt 383]

1st off it's genius, not genious... If you are going to degrade my intelligence at least get it right in the spelling department...

Thanks, I know how to spell. That oversight isn't from a lack of ability to spell, it is simply not proof reading what I type.

2nd I hope that anybody that reads this thread is seeing how you are acting, if you were truly after the advancement of knowledge (instead of self promotion) you would not mind sharing those pictures from your site with this board. Since you apparently do have a problem with those pictures being posted here one must wonder why?

I'll tell you why: the primary reason is specifically because our monthly website bandwith usage (or data transfer allocation, or whatever they call it) goes through the roof and we are charged dearly for all the deep-linked images that end up on forums where only a handful of interested people care to look at them and the other 98% could care less even though the images are sent to their home computer screens as well. And so if someone wants to look at the pictures, they are readily available on our website for anyone to see who may be truly interested in viewing them.


F1Fever I must say, your presumptuousness (did I spell it right? ) in most every matter expressed by you within this thread goes farther than any keyboard warrior I have personally encountered for quite some time.

Sorry to learn of your insecurities, and good luck,

Paul

Not going to call you out on this because to me its total bs, but if you dont want the pictures used because of bandwidth, you can keep them from being a link on your site, and still host the pics for people to see.....

[plovett]

But it sounds like in the realm of "budget performance" (kind of an oxymoron, huh?), that the choice would be a 460 Ford or 454/502 Chev.

So, the 4.9" bore spacing was mentioned; what advantage does that give when using a stock block? I'd expect that the 10.3" deck would be a bigger advantage if a guy wanted to put a 4.5" crank in.

-Bill

4.9 bore spacing combined with the 10.3" deck height available in any junkyard 385 series BBF will allow more displacement and thus lower rpms for a given power level.

Best choice for your original question is the 385 series BBF IMO. It will handle that power level easily with pretty much stock components and is as cheap or cheaper than a BBC. Heck you can get bare Alloy CJ heads for something like $580 each right now, or about $800 each assembled. Or you could

But I think you answered your own question above. Either a 460 Ford or a 454/502 Chevy would be a good choice for your needs. All the other choices are not as good.

Paul Kane,

I apologize for posting a link to your website. I underestimated the will of the ignorant to remain ignorant.

paulie

[falcongeorge]

I underestimated the will of the ignorant to remain ignorant.

paulie

A fatal error in judgement, as this thread so aptly illustrates.

[Tod74]

Are you saying the T/D guys are running production bbc blocks and crankshafts?....sure sounds like it.

No, I'm not. That's not even close to what I said.

It is true now, and it was true 20 years ago, back when everyone ran an OEM block and maybe a set of Dart or AFR heads.

Note the part about "20 years ago, back when everybody ran an OEM block". Meaning, 20 years ago, when there was no Top Dragster class, Super Comp and Super Gas were populated by big block Chevy powered cars, mostly with OEM blocks. Back then, we were qualifying pretty well in series like the Barnett Super Quick series, with a 468 Chevy, with a 512 casting OEM block, 990 OEM heads, a 7416 forged crank, 7/16" bolt dimple rods, and LS-7 pistons, under either a tunnel ram with two 1150 Dominators on gasoline, or a Crower McCay injector set up on methanol.

No, I never said anything close to "T/D guys are running OEM blocks and cranks". That would be pretty stupid, not to mention both false and foolish.

512 BLOCK 7416 CRANK....YOU guys make a chevelle lover cry.Those are valuable stuff now days.

[bobqzzi]

How much does a Dodge V10 go for? Too exotic?

[dfree383]

How much does a Dodge V10 go for? Too exotic?

Viper V10..... To Freaking Expensive, Truck V10....... Why Bother... Besides the question was about V8's that are readily avaliable.