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Trick Flow 190's

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Trick Flow 190's

Postby Keith Morganstein » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:40 pm

I'm not messing in that other thread, but am curious about the Trick Flow 190 SBF heads. Thoughts ???

Twisted Wedge Track Heat 190

Intake Runner Volume (cc): 190cc
Exhaust Runner Volume (cc): 66cc
64cc CNC Chamber

Intake Valve Angle: 15
Exhaust Valve Angle: 17

(factory #s, 28"
4.030", 1 7⁄8" pipe.

.100" 71 57
.200" 145 115
.300" 214 150
.400" 257 187
.500" 268 194
.600" 273 197
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Re: Trick Flow 190's

Postby n2omike » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:12 pm

On these heads, the intake port is shortened, so port volume cannot be directly compared to standard heads. The cross section of these 190cc heads compares more directly to a standard valve placement head in the 205cc range.

Since the valve is pulled back for unshrouding, they aren't as hindered by 4.0" bores as much as standard valve placement heads.

With some fairly minor hand work, these heads can flow really well, and do so at moderate valve lifts.
Shortly after the 170cc head came out, TEA had them flowing 300cfm at around 0.500" lift.
They were the most popular head in one of the lift limited mustang classes... Renegade, I think.

These 190cc heads are the big brother to the original 170.

I have a set of the old 170's that I hand ported. (no flow bench or anything)
They are in my pump gas 306ci 1966 mustang street car with a SFT cam, 6800 rpm shift, stock toploader 4-speed, 4.33 Detroit Locker, 3300lb w/driver, 1-5/8" headers, and a 200hp nitrous plate. Car went 10.15 @ 133.7 mph last fall.
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Re: Trick Flow 190's

Postby T-flow » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:21 am

Yes, theese heads work very good. They as said, were very popular in "Renegade" class. They will flow great numbers and perform well. The pistons I beleive need to be special
for the Twisted wedge heads, atleast with a good lift cam.

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Re: Trick Flow 190's

Postby new engine builder » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:14 am

n2omike wrote:On these heads, the intake port is shortened, so port volume cannot be directly compared to standard heads. The cross section of these 190cc heads compares more directly to a standard valve placement head in the 205cc range.

Since the valve is pulled back for unshrouding, they aren't as hindered by 4.0" bores as much as standard valve placement heads.

With some fairly minor hand work, these heads can flow really well, and do so at moderate valve lifts.
Shortly after the 170cc head came out, TEA had them flowing 300cfm at around 0.500" lift.
They were the most popular head in one of the lift limited mustang classes... Renegade, I think.

These 190cc heads are the big brother to the original 170.

I have a set of the old 170's that I hand ported. (no flow bench or anything)
They are in my pump gas 306ci 1966 mustang street car with a SFT cam, 6800 rpm shift, stock toploader 4-speed, 4.33 Detroit Locker, 3300lb w/driver, 1-5/8" headers, and a 200hp nitrous plate. Car went 10.15 @ 133.7 mph last fall.

I'm not trying to start anything from the other thread either but I am having trouble with the head part numbers and head model names.
What is the part # of the heads that have a port volume of 190 cc's and flowed around 300 cfm at .500 lift.?
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Re: Trick Flow 190's

Postby n2omike » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:08 am

new engine builder wrote:
n2omike wrote:Shortly after the 170cc head came out, TEA had them flowing 300cfm at around 0.500" lift.

What is the part # of the heads that have a port volume of 190 cc's and flowed around 300 cfm at .500 lift.?


Those are PORTED numbers for the original 170cc heads done at TEA years ago... back when they were still hand porting these castings. These heads do very well at moderate lifts. It's why they were used in Renegade, that limited lift to 0.550". Renegade also had a limited number of 'allowed' heads... mostly those considered 'street' heads, which included the Twisted Wedge. I believe TEA now sells a CNC 'Renegade' TW head.
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Re: Trick Flow 190's

Postby Bad95Gts » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:30 am

They are a copy of the CNC ported T/W 185cc head. The casting process added a few cc's on the port.

Advantages of a T/W head is valve angle, valve location and combustion chamber design all a result of the valve rotation.

The max flow out of the casting I have seen is around 330 cfm.

Theses heads are prone to turbulence in the as cast 170 cc version but the 190 version seems to not have this problem.

Compare the T/W 190 to an AFR 205, Vic Jr, etc heads.
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Re: Trick Flow 190's

Postby n2omike » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:58 am

Intake Runner Angularity.

The TW heads have a reduced valve angle, but a stock intake port entrance height. This causes the port to run at a shallow, almost horizontal angle. This shallow angle lines up great with stock style EFI lower intakes that also run almost level, but causes a 'dog leg' when used with a high rise single plane intake.

I don't know just how serious this 'dog leg' between the intake manifold's and head's runners is when it comes to performance, but it is there. I'd think, going to the trouble of significantly raising the head's intake port entrance to straighten things out would be worthwhile. If TrickFlow would come up with a raised runner head and matching intake, they could REALLY be on to something.
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Re: Trick Flow 190's

Postby jayh » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:33 pm

the top/keeper portion of the valve is not rolled out, the lower/face of the valve is rolled in
as stated this unshrouds the valve from the cylinder wall on 4.030 bore

the current renegade head is 205cc and flows 314 @ .500 according to the data at the bottom of this page-
http://www.totalengineairflow.com/produ ... ead/tfstw/
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Re: Trick Flow 190's

Postby Keith Morganstein » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:22 pm

I like the look of the CNC'd chambers (shape) Wonder how they would respond to steeper valve seat angles?

What kind of valvetrain / rockers are required?

Is Trickflow owned or marketed by Summit? The website has a Summit look to it.
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Re: Trick Flow 190's

Postby Bad95Gts » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:57 pm

Keith Morganstein wrote:I like the look of the CNC'd chambers (shape) Wonder how they would respond to steeper valve seat angles?

What kind of valvetrain / rockers are required?

Is Trickflow owned or marketed by Summit? The website has a Summit look to it.


They are owned by Summit.

TEA does there cnc work from what I understand.

They take coventional rockers.
Not sure on the valve angle.
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Re: Trick Flow 190's

Postby automotive breath » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:32 pm

Here's some pictures of early SBF trick flow ports, the shape of the ports weren't
changed much, mostly just cleaned up.

Image

Image
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Re: Trick Flow 190's

Postby Mike Rogers » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:47 pm

I have not see any of these heads in the shop for awhile they use to wear guides out quickly did they get that solved.
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Re: Trick Flow 190's

Postby 347guy » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:32 pm

Mike Rogers wrote:I have not see any of these heads in the shop for awhile they use to wear guides out quickly did they get that solved.

12-14 years ago
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Re: Trick Flow 190's

Postby slickta » Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:11 am

347guy wrote:
Mike Rogers wrote:I have not see any of these heads in the shop for awhile they use to wear guides out quickly did they get that solved.

12-14 years ago

I believe they moved the rocker studs.?.?
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Re: Trick Flow 190's

Postby n2omike » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:04 am

When the VERY first ones came out, they were made to keep the price as low as possible. They could be had for around $899/pr, I believe. They had iron/steel valve guides from the factory. That's when I bought mine. However, they sat on the shelf forever as my 'old' engine never seemed like it wanted to wear out. LOL

Anyway, after a TON of people complaining about having to change the valve guides with every oil change, TrickFlow offered a free 'fix'. You shipped the heads back to them, they did their magic and sent them back. Mine were ported, and I had already had bronze guides installed at this point, but they had never been installed. I sent them in, and they came back with the rocker studs heli-coiled (possibly re-angled), the rocker stud boss looked like it may have been milled, and they came back with new, different guide plates. I believe the fix also included bronze guides.

Mine were set up with good rocker geometry, but I haven't had them off the engine to check for guide wear. From memory, I believe the ideal pushrod length also varied quite a bit from stock. From the list-serves at the time (pre-forums) it seemed most people were having better luck getting decent geometry from the first heads by using the shorter SBC rocker arms.

The 'fix' wasn't all that well advertised, but was available and was free. This has probalby been a good 10 years ago.
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