head decisions??

67RS502 · Post by **67RS502** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:05 pm

Here are 2 pics of my old 4" set up and new 3 1/2" system.
The "box" works similar to an x-pipe and open headers with header extensions,
it gives the system volume and simulates the atmospheric pressure the exhaust
gasses see with an open header setup, then there are 3 1/2" pipes to nice straight
thru Magnaflows. I've also wrapped the exhaust with header wrap to reduce a bit
of the noise.

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:22 pm

Nice!
How does the sound quality and volume compare to the H pipe set up?
Turn downs would likely cut the inteior noise a bit, if that's an issue.

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:23 pm

SUPRSLO wrote:
MadBill wrote:Yes, Walker seems to be the only company that publishes flow numbers for (at least some of) their mufflers! I'm pretty sure my 4" 40 Series Flowmasters would (they are 12 x one cylinder's volume per Vizard's recommendation), but I haven't been able to flow them.
Well you wouldn't happen to have access to a flow bench for them would you . Every time i've ever tried to ask any of these muffler companies about flow they just told me about how it doesn't mean anything yadda yadda yadda. It would be nice to be able to get the benefits of the wave tuning and have the adequate flow in a muffled system without having to build one of these space consuming terminator box setups suggested by vizard.

I came that close (Maxwell Smart, secret agent, holds up his thumb and first finger 1/4" apart) to getting a quick flow test on a SF 600! There's a slight chance I still might in the next couple of months...

SUPRSLO · Post by **SUPRSLO** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:48 pm

MadBill wrote:
SUPRSLO wrote:
MadBill wrote:Yes, Walker seems to be the only company that publishes flow numbers for (at least some of) their mufflers! I'm pretty sure my 4" 40 Series Flowmasters would (they are 12 x one cylinder's volume per Vizard's recommendation), but I haven't been able to flow them.
Well you wouldn't happen to have access to a flow bench for them would you . Every time i've ever tried to ask any of these muffler companies about flow they just told me about how it doesn't mean anything yadda yadda yadda. It would be nice to be able to get the benefits of the wave tuning and have the adequate flow in a muffled system without having to build one of these space consuming terminator box setups suggested by vizard.
I came that close (Maxwell Smart, secret agent, holds up his thumb and first finger 1/4" apart) to getting a quick flow test on a SF 600! There's a slight chance I still might in the next couple of months...

Excellent! Certainly let us know the results.

67RS502 · Post by **67RS502** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:01 pm

It sounds pretty much like an X-pipe, it sounds like it revs faster, but I dont
see it in the tach. I think it just sounds like its turning more rpm when you rev it,
then the H-pipe. I do like the sound and think it sounds better then the H-pipe,
just a cleaner sound.
As for volume the old 4" H-pipe was around 200 cu. inches.
The new box is around 500 cu. inches, as per Vizard - it needs to be the
same cubes as the motor.
After a "termination box" the pipe size needs to stay the same and the muffs
need to have the same "min. cross section" as the pipe to ensure they flow
about the same cfm as the open pipe, thats were I like to use good "stick your arm"
straight thru muffs:)
As for turn downs, I'm not using them because I'm workin on makin a cheesy
"mud-flap" out of some thermo wrap that sits about 1" behind the end of the pipe.
So far its workin, as it keeps the exhaust from echoing/droning under the car,
kinda like driving over grass....
Ok, enough with my crazy exhaust ideas

racer1320 · Post by **racer1320** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:39 pm

BobW wrote: I'm thinking the heads may have been screwed up when the 2.25 valves were installed? I just had mine done by the wrong person I guess?? I could pull them off and have them flowed or just bite the bullet and go with the RR ovals, something we know that works and lose about 75lbs off the front of the car.

Bob, you didn't listen to me a year ago and look at the outcome!

Don't make the same mistake twice!!!

With all due respect to those here who you have asked their OPINION, how many of them race a n/a 2 ton street/strip Chevelle?

I'm betting not ONE, no different than your engine builder and his claims/guarantees of performance with this 505!

Your cam, intake, exhaust and compression is NOT the problem nor is the fact you run oval port heads!!!

John Lingenfelter became a BBC guru over 25 years and until his death almost entirely due to the fact that most of his engine BBC builds for street/strip rides as well as heavy race cars operating under 7500 RPM were based around oval port heads even on 540's!!

You ain't the first to run oval port heads on a 505 and won't be the last!

Ask Mike Taylor over at DRR about his oval port headed 505!

Do what I advised you to do over at DRR!!!

I've already told you what that motor should be making for power/what ET's it should be capable of running as it stands!

THAT motor has wholesale issues/problems!

Remember Bob, I'm the guy that told you that you'd run slower with a Vic Jr. while your engine assembler and many of the internet crowd guaranteed you you'd run quicker!

It's your time and $ and the decision what you do with it is yours and your s alone though it certainly sounds though like you WANT the Brodix heads and looking to hear from those that agree with you!

BobW · Post by **BobW** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:20 pm

Hey Ed, are the Brodix RR Ovals a worthwhile investment when compared to throwing good money after bad on the heads I already have? I like the oval ports from a performance standpoint, just look at the red car. I know you like the ProFilers, but the numbers are pretty good for the RR ovals. 270cc ports,115cc CNC chambers,340 at .600,and everything is in the stock location. It will cost alot of money to get my heads to those numbers, and thats if they are not ruined already and in that case I'd have to start all over. Losing 75lbs off the nose of the car is appealing also

We both bracket race, you are after max performance/results with your combo, while I am still trying to keep mine on the street. I'll never match your performance n/a as long as I try to keep it on the street and keep the 6k redline. Now if Larry Meaux lived in the neighborhood, it might be a worthwhile investment to have him check out my heads

hsutton · Post by **hsutton** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:45 pm

Hi Bob, Our change to the bigger motor in Brian's car has made quite a bit of difference in his "motor only" performances. The "AFR 357 CNC" heads had me concerned since they didn't flow as well in the mid lift as advertised, but they perform great. Darin said "flow don't mean squat" and he was right. I really don't know if the bench we used was incapable of accurately measuring the flow or not since the high lift flow was dead on when i put the head on a Superflow 600. I think the little "315 CNC" or the 305 with the machined chamber would work on your car or the same from Brodix but the AFR flows a little better. The Brodix's exhaust is positioned somewhat low and doesn't flow nearly as well as the AFRs. The AFR 305 isn't very expensive and the chamber option puts the two heads very close together, pricewise. If all you want is a ten, long ago we picked up quite a bit from a 1050 Annular flow Dominator but it didn't idle very well. Lingenfelter's oval ports were Darts and completely ported and cost over $3000 a pair.

67RS502 · Post by **67RS502** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:31 pm

Hey Harold, are you sharing your opinion with us again

Glad to see you here, this is a great place. We can give our input on
what works in the engine/car and these guys can tell you why/how
from a scientific stand point. Lots of good info/reading here...
My brain cell in on overload already.

BobW · Post by **BobW** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:45 pm

Thats for sure, there is a wealth of information on this board, I've been reading for quite a while since I found out about this site. I did find something interesting out today or not

Brodix says the RR Ovals would work great on my combo, with the cam and rpm limits, then I call the guy that built the motor and he says I'd be lucky to pickup .05 with the Brodix heads. SO....back to reading, anyone have any interesting links that might help me learn some more about this stuff? thanks for the help.

shawn · Post by **shawn** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:03 pm

hi,
I'm really surprised nobody has mentioned the 310 canfield head. I have done quite a few sets of them on motors very similar to what you have and they run really good. Price on them is nice too. Only bitch you might have with them is the raised exhaust port sometimes causes fits with headers. You should check them out.
shawn

67RS502 · Post by **67RS502** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:43 pm

I'd like to do a set of Canfields for my 502, seams like a good head
to start with, price aint bad... I've seem a set of CFE canfields and
they do make big power. I think they would work well for Bob with
a good valve job and clean up in the bowl, do the chambers too
so you could bump the comp up some.

SStrokerAce · Post by **SStrokerAce** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:10 am

67RS502 wrote:I'd like to do a set of Canfields for my 502, seams like a good head
to start with, price aint bad... I've seem a set of CFE canfields and
they do make big power. I think they would work well for Bob with
a good valve job and clean up in the bowl, do the chambers too
so you could bump the comp up some.

Talking about CFE and some small runner heads

http://www.bmfracing.com/images/bmfdata/366310165.pdf

BMF is CFE's sportsman line. $3200 out the door.

FWIW, Missouri is a hella lot closer to Meaux than I am, hell it's only a UPS shippment away. Make sure you check with him though because he's a busy guy.

Bret